People selling runs, why not talking about it ?

[Niwashi]

... but most in your situation are just looking to get carried.

The fact that wanting to be carried may well be the most common reason for buying runs doesn't eliminate the fact that the second most common reason is wanting a chance to do the run properly yourself when you can't find 7 other people who also want to do it.

People in that second group, those who want to actually experience the game as it was meant to be played, get berated by those selling runs for not wanting a carry, at the same time as they get vilified by everyone else for the exact opposite, claiming they need a carry (which they neither need nor want).

(I haven't bought any runs, but only because I can't afford to. If I had enough gil to do so, I would be quite willing to buy runs from anyone who would let me genuinely run them.)

[Andrea]

Stuff

If im reading this correctly most groups that sell runs are ok with you participating. But if you cause the group to wipe then that is what you payed for and its duty abandoned. If you honestly feel you can clear it without mistakes im sure a group will allow you to stay alive.

I honestly have no idea why a person would purchase a run to not get carried when you can just set up a PF or get FC help for free. Sure it may take some time to get the group but once you start getting a small network of people you can clear whatever comes out in the future together if needed.

[Seraphix2407]

First of all, let people play however they want, being carried or not. You find tons of people who has bunch of friends but they get carried by their own fc or friends, for example stay dead, or dead most of the time or the performance is so bad (dps, handling mechanics etc.) I always prefer a player who wants help to clear content and know they can do it, meaning they been training somewhere else and just need a group to get them through it, then they perform good both dps and mechanics.

What about that one friend you have who play's bad as hell but didn't pay for the content but just performed so bad, it might as weel been 7 man kill? What about you who can't perform well but also the player who actually makes the party wipe? Many talk about if some one pays for content then it ruins for everyone who tries to clear the content, but the one player who bought the content is gonna end up in the party and screw everyone over? Don't forget, many players who cleared conent might not have paid for it, but they are those who got carried or just performed so bad, it might as well be called a carry.

The fact people selling content is a service. You have thos fc's or linkshells who brags all the time about how many members they have but yet they cant help their own memebers? I've had many of these players who are GREAT but simply can't get help from their fc or linkshells. I'm selling content or well was selling content (been a while now) because it's a service and if you good at something, you almost never do it for free. I mentioned earlier in this thread, ive seen some amazing players who been buying from me, I ended up using them for my own sell team.


So for starters, if you are againts people getting carried or paying for content, start with yourself, perhaps the fc/linkshell you own or is in, then start help people there. Many of these carries I've had are most of the players who simply can't get help. Main problem is people that can't even help their members, because they either play bad or never cleared the content. And you never did clear the content, then start with a group to do stuff together and then down the content. And if you did clear the content then help, dont sit around and wait for some one to end up buying, because you or your friends didn't want to help. In my fc we help ALL the time, including the linkshell I own. If people ask, I'm there to help.

And before people ask why I don't do it free for everyone, is because I need(ed) income in game which is gil, and to do that I need to do some sort of service. Crafting pre hw was my thing, now it's just bad and not worth it, so yes selling content made me get what I wanted. A house, vanity and also giving away over items, minions, hell even 4 small houses to people during holidays on my server. Was even reddit thread(s) about it, so I don't excactly feel bad selling content x).

ps: I'm tired, so there is alot of stuff I'm too cba to fix.

[Andrea]

And before people ask why I don't do it free for everyone

Imo its pretty selfish to assume the people that sell runs should carry you for free.

[PArcher]

The fact that wanting to be carried may well be the most common reason for buying runs doesn't eliminate the fact that the second most common reason is wanting a chance to do the run properly yourself when you can't find 7 other people who also want to do it.

People in that second group, those who want to actually experience the game as it was meant to be played, get berated by those selling runs for not wanting a carry, at the same time as they get vilified by everyone else for the exact opposite, claiming they need a carry (which they neither need nor want).

(I haven't bought any runs, but only because I can't afford to. If I had enough gil to do so, I would be quite willing to buy runs from anyone who would let me genuinely run them.)

See, the problem with the 'second group' is they are paying to be carried, not to experience a run with a good group "as it was meant to be played". Lot of groups would still insist that the person being carried, regardless of their skill or fight knowledge, to not participate in the fight to ensure the run went as smoothly as possible (because no one wants to be wiping to something that should have been 1-shot).

Also, from my experience, people wanting to just play with good players is not as common as you think; when I used to be on sell runs we sold a lot more to people looking for specific drops (and/or tokens after HW) than people just looking for a clear, and people buying to play with good people was basically non-existent.

[Seraphix2407]

Imo its pretty selfish to assume the people that sell runs should carry you for free.

Yeah I mean I help alot of people, but I did sell runs. But when I help people and the annoying part is they ask me to bring the good other players to tag along. If you want my help you ask me to tag along, you dont ask me to get the rest, which is sometimes annoying imo. :/. Ive done over 300 coil runs for people on my server for no fee and I even let them stay alive if they prefer to. I also do that with my buyers, if they prefer to stay alive and know they cant wipe us then its totally fine by me as well .

[Andres_Lonegrief]

I still don't understand whether selling runs is against TC or not. I remember reading that reporting these people would result in GM taking some kind of actions, but i couldn't find it anywhere so probably i just imagined it.

Anyway, i think that SE should do something so that even people who want to focus on DoW or DoM can make gills properly without investing time crafting and gathering. This would help reducing the number of players selling runs which does affect the community. In 2.X there were players being carried past Titan EX and thought they could clear Levi or Ramuh causing wipe after wipe.

It's frustrating for people who can't find a good party, but then again the fact that it's hard to find good training/kill/farm parties is also because of people who buy runs and join them without being experienced. It will happen soon with Alex Savage just like it did with Bismark > Ravana Ex. People will buy the first floors and expect they can join A3 making it even harder for groups that haven't a full party.

This game is made of layers .. there are raids that are just not meant for everybody or that will require to some player (including me) more time than the average to get past them. It's ok and the sooner the community accept this the better will be for the game.

[Ossom]

Some of the prices in here are crazy. 6M for a T9, I wish I could sell it that high.

@Andres_lonegrief : Selling content is not against the Terms & Conditions at the moment. GMs treat a content sale the same as selling a piece of gear and they will hold both parties to the agreement if you can prove you made the agreement from what I understand. Most content sellers have a reputation that they like to uphold though and some of them become some of the most trustworthy people on the server.

I have had multiple people I do not know trust me with their Gil/Materia/Armor when trading across characters, looking for some place to store something, buy a run from me because they believe I am trustworthy just from how often my name is in PF doing sales without having a single complaint against me. I expect this is pretty common across all servers. I do not think I have yet heard of a group of sellers run off with someone elses money, and I suspect that is why SE is ok with content sales. Because it isn't disrupting people's experience with the game.

[Andrea]

Anyway, i think that SE should do something so that even people who want to focus on DoW or DoM can make gills properly without investing time crafting and gathering. This would help reducing the number of players selling runs which does affect the community. In 2.X there were players being carried past Titan EX and thought they could clear Levi or Ramuh causing wipe after wipe.

While I will acknowledge that what you say does indeed happen a small part due to selling runs, I would be willing to be that more people get free carries from FC groups than groups selling.

Hell I myself have helped friends or friends of a friend out with passing content that I know they just aren't good enough to pass. Sure they could improve but they most times do not want to.

[Niwashi]

See, the problem with the 'second group' is they are paying to be carried, not to experience a run with a good group "as it was meant to be played". Lot of groups would still insist that the person being carried, regardless of their skill or fight knowledge, to not participate in the fight to ensure the run went as smoothly as possible (because no one wants to be wiping to something that should have been 1-shot).

Yes, and that's exactly the problem I was talking about. It's not the person paying for it who wants to be carried, they're too often being unwillingly forced into a carry because the ones selling runs prefer doing it that way, and insist that their own desires should outweigh those of their customers. The buyer's other option is to simply give up, not buy it, and so likely never get a chance to see that dungeon at all.

If you join someone just for sake of helping them and getting some tomes, then you're expected to work with them and make a real effort at completing the dungeon together. Anyone who just bails at the first hint of difficulty is (quite justifiably) regarded as being a terrible player. Yet somehow, when players are getting not only the rewards offered by the game itself, but also an often quite huge payment of gil as well, they suddenly decide that getting that extra payment entitles them to insist on everything going perfectly or they can bail on the person paying them, or worse yet, shut them out entirely. There's no excuse for such behavior even without getting paid. I'll never understand how anyone would accept it when someone is getting paid.