People selling runs, why not talking about it ?

[Vivi_Bushido]

If you can't sell carries, you shouldn't sell houses either. Because both encourages RMT. If one is acceptable, then both should be acceptable.

[MeiUshu]

to be honest, more then once I thought of paying for those runs, instead of waiting 400mn+ each day until finally one day the run you miss pops, because it happens that you want to do it sync..and everybody wants only fast mode. I never did it but, even if I am against those practice, I cannot blame people for wanting to experience at least once the thrill of the fight whatever that fight is. Besides, if there are sellers there are buyers, cant blame the sellers for wanting money to buy a house out of price, right ?...or buy the best gears ...money is power, irl or ig is no diferent. Leave those that want to do that and just mind your own business..Nobody forces you to lower the prices and nobody forces you to make the prices prohibitives ones...market is market, business is business nobody's else business if not those that are in business....this is the first rule of thumb. I wish they were forbidden but is not soooo..life as usual

[Seraphix2407]

The market board sells items, not services. From what I've heard people who sell runs don't even give the items to the buyer and lets be honest that this is evidence of some deep rooted problems within the game.

And? There is some super high priced items on MB for 5-50 million, what about those? It doesn't encourage at all? Please people I know admited buying gil because of the high price. It actually does more than those who buy runs.

[Vivi_Bushido]

Not everyone wants to learn, though. There's plenty of people out there with a pocket full of gil and an 'ain't nobody got time for that' attitude when it comes to content. They don't want a challenge, they want shiny loot. If people want to learn, I encourage them to do so but it takes work! I've noticed that a lot of the people that I've met that complain that they can't find people to help them clear don't really seem to be putting in a lot of effort toward it. "But there's no parties for it in party finder," is a really common excuse. You know what? Be proactive and make one. Go beat around every linkshell, knock on every friend's door, and shout around in every zone until it fills. Don't just sit there and stare at PF and whine about how run selling is awful for the community. There's nothing exploitative about selling a run to someone that doesn't want to learn the content anyway.

I couldn't agree more!

In addition; that there is half of this community's problem. Nobody takes initiative. I'm sorry, but "There's no parties in party finder" is not a tolerable excuse to me. If you really, and I mean really want to learn the fight, you'll make the PF yourself and have it say "Learning Party"; but god forbid nobody wants to run with pugs. A lot of people would rather just sit around and wait for their FC to eventually carry them. And on other occasions, you get the "I tried to make a party but the party finder was taking forever to fill", well you know what sweetheart? That problem isn't going away anytime soon because even current tier content suffers that issue to. Unfortunately, we just have to suck that one up.

"So in the end, it boils down to two simple choices. Either you do or you don't. You'd think with all the problems in this world, there'd be more answers. It's not fair...
...But that's the way things are. The choice is yours."

[Starbirth]

First, your third hand knowledge is wrong. Its expected to give the buyer the loot when you sell a clear. Some d-bags will have separate price schedules for clears with/without loot, but its not common. The only time you'll really see a lootless clear is when you buy it from a group that's loot locked for the week.

Second, there's absolutely nothing wrong with charging for services. What's wrong is expecting others to do something for you for free just because you want it. There is absolutely nothing in the ToS about selling services for in game currency.

On my server the ones who advertise it don't. I never viewed offering services as some kind of black plague on the community its just an effect that happens when people become lazy or are unable to clear because other people don't have the competency to clear it. Many who sold Titan runs back in the day sold them to players who actually knew the fight but were held back by others. The only difference now is the population that has cleared AS is less than 1%.

As for the RMT situation it's nobodies fault but SE's. We still don't even have an in game report feature.

And? There is some super high priced items on MB for 5-50 million, what about those? It doesn't encourage at all? Please people I know admited buying gil because of the high price. It actually does more than those who buy runs.

Sounds like a lack of competition to me. Its inevitable that discontinued items will rise in value over time but things like the relic items will go down as well. SE knows this and that's why all the seasonal stuff has been untradable these past few months.

[Gunspec]

Clear sellers are a blight upon the community.

I think the ones that expect housing size rewards for one or two clears are terrible, sure, because they make other static groups believe that they should demand that much to help players as well. That being said, I don't mind that there are static groups out there that will walk people through content in exchange for a reward. I used to bribe people in WoW with rare pets and other oddities to help me with tasks I didn't have a group for.

You won't catch me doing that in FFXIV because the prices groups expect for their help is insane, even for content in which the primary difficulty is simply finding enough bodies. The cost of a pony or even an old coil clear is enough to buy the raid group a full set of thavnarian glamour back at its most expensive market value. The ONLY explanation for someone having that much gil to throw around each week is RMT.

[SnugglesD]

Selling clears doesn't promote RMT any more than overpriced minions do. Your whole argument is that selling anything for any substantial amount of gil automatically forces people to buy it with real cash. Laziness promotes RMT. Ignorance promotes RMT. SE promotes RMT with the way they devised the system.

People using a particular skill they possess to make a profit doesn't promote RMT, it makes them entrepreneurs.

[Seraphix2407]

Sounds like a lack of competition to me. Its inevitable that discontinued items will rise in value over time but things like the relic items will go down as well. SE knows this and that's why all the seasonal stuff has been untradable these past few months.

Yes and no. The easter cherry tree is 5-8 mil on my server, and alooooooot of players wants it but it's not avaible anymore as they change the items each year is out.
Problem is the overpriced items, many wants them but they arent avaible in bulks or things that people rarely do anymore. Some of the seasonal stuff can be sold on MB, like housing items, the gear itself like the santa outfit isn't sellable, correct me if I'm wrong. But items like these will be overpriced once it's not obtainable anymore and people missed it because:
1: They werent on when this happened
2: New players
3: both?

[Zeonx]

uhhhh because everyone already has talked about it before.

Nobody cares, it has nothing to do with you, they are making Gil from doing this, its nothing new it was done in FFXI also.
Its been going on since beginning of FFXIV ARR release.

You can duty up and get yours done and totally ignore those people, I don't see how it effects you.

I am sure they have a Free company Bank and people actually run their shells with a point system and people get GIL for showing up for events.

Its the same as FFXI LS bank and the DKP system people used.

I highly doubt RMT are doing this because by the time they get up to 30-50+ they are always banned, I have not yet seen a RMT in heavensward cept one time and it was a botter though quickly reported and banned.

[Preypacer]

You missed the point then. It's a rare player now that actually wants to learn the fights and progress if they aren't in the "first wave" of clearing. In general, waiting shows a lack of care fir the accomplishment, just wanting to get the clear to say they got the clear.

Yes, you are different, but most in your situation are just looking to get carried. And those also happen to be willing to pay for the clear if it's mentioned.

No, I didn't miss your point at all, and I'm not even contesting it. Yes, there are people want to be carried through content and, indeed, through the entire game. You don't even have to wait for high-end/raid level content to see examples of that. I've seen it in Story and Hard mode content as well, where people want to just coast through everything, not lift a finger (except to lot on items), and let everyone else do the work.

However, you're arguing a point that's completely aside what I'm saying.

I'm saying "If you want to sell clears, and there's a market for it, then by all means, do so. Just be honest in your intentions, and don't stand on ceremony over a principle you don't even really hold to yourself. Don't pretend you care about keeping the difficulty of content for the sake of "preserving your own sense of accomplishment", when all you really care about is preserving the size of your in-game wallet. If you're willing to accept money to carry someone through, then you don't really give a crap about whether or not that person has earned their win."

Nothing I'm saying is in disagreement with what you're saying. It's two completely separate issues that happen to overlap within similar content.