Producer live letter 1/12/16, lets discuss.

[Nalien]

Unfortunately it's abundantly clear that there are many forum participants (and by extension players in game) who - as you're pointing out - do not believe that the relic is that third path where you can obtain decent gear through long term effort, and instead feel it too should be gated behind raid difficulty content. I'll never understand the need that some folks have to disenfranchise other people to make themselves feel better.

I don't get why they can't be both... Just have two paths for completing a weapon;

Path A, pretty much what we get now, but we get it earlier and it never outclasses the current top raid reward until new the new top raid is on the way.
Path B, requires challenging content, including the final raid, and rewards a weapon superior to the top raid reward.

You know, pretty much exactly what they did with Alexander. People who just want the story go through and get i190, people who want the challenge go through and get i210. I wont say that will make everyone happy, because I know for a fact that the majority will likely cry over their Anima weapon not being as good as the Anima weapon of someone who put more effort in, but it's a start. "Casuals" would essentially get exactly what we're currently getting, people who actually want to play a challenging game can get something for it. I'd certainly be more interested in raids if something like that was attached to it... I hate Alexander, but I'd much rather run through that for a relic, than grind FATEs. Adding such an option doesn't really take anything away from the "casuals", they'd still get exactly what they're currently getting. At worst it gives them something to aspire to, a reason to get better and try playing more of what the game has to offer, though apparently we're not allowed that in this day and age... Everyone needs their medal for playing, and when everyone is a winner, nobody wins...

Funny thing, they actually had the perfect recipe for setting up something like this in 2.1... Primal Focus... I'd love to upgrade Balmung as the "hardcore" relic option...

[Kosmos992k]

I don't get why they can't be both... Just have two paths for completing a weapon;

Why does it need to be? there are three paths to decent weapons, at least one of those fits what you want to add. I mean, you're saying you want multiple paths to good gear, and Yoshi described exactly that. Adding what amounts to a short cut to what is meant to be a grind just seems pointless. Why should you be able to avoid the long term grind just because you can beat Trials X & Y? Just as Raiders would rightly demand to know why the raiding weapon could be obtained through a long grind. Keeping each weapon in it's own separate path, distinguishes each from the other.

[Nalien]

Why does it need to be?

I find the relic process far more engaging than anything else the game has to offer. It's a long term goal, just right now I'm not too pleased with the long term goal being a mindless and easy chore.

Yoshida is simplifying things somewhat, IMO. We have "hard" content and its rewards, then we have "easy" content and its rewards. Then we have long term goals, like relics. I much prefer having a goal like that, to clearing Thordan and getting a weapon for it. I like long term goals, I just don't like the difficulty of the current long term goal. Arguably clearing a raid is a long term goal, but the process by which that is long term is not something I find as appealing. I'd rather clear Alexander, then work on something new, than clear it and kind of fizzle out of interest.

Right now it's kind of a middle ground thing. One group steps up to grind a relic, the other steps down to grind it. I'd rather have an option both groups step up to grind. This isn't about me wanting to laud something over other people, it's more about just wanting better content, something which is more suited to my tastes. I preferred the Primal Focus weapons to Zeniths for that exact reason.

Adding what amounts to a short cut to what is meant to be a grind just seems pointless. Why should you be able to avoid the long term grind just because you can beat Trials X & Y? Just as Raiders would rightly demand to know why the raiding weapon could be obtained through a long grind. Keeping each weapon in it's own separate path, distinguishes each from the other.

How is it a shortcut? How would it even upset raiders? I specifically said it should involve the raid content... This would be something to give raids added meaning... Right now we have two easy options for gearing, one takes less time than the other, relics obviously being the time consuming one. All I'm saying is we should have the same thing for people who actually want to be challenged... A long term goal which requires you to play the game, rather than a long term goal which requires you to switch of and grind FATEs...

We'd have easy weapons from regular content, then relics from regular content. Then we'd have hard weapons from raid content, and relics from raid content. Arguably we can get better quests for both as a result, because right now relics are trying to please everyone, and doing a terrible job of it. Have them tailored to what people enjoy in the game though? People who are "casual" get a quest more suited to how they play. People who are "hardcore" get a quest more suited to how they play. Arguably, everyone would be happy.

[SendohJin]

I don't get why they can't be both... Just have two paths for completing a weapon;

development resources is why.

[Kaurie]

development resources is why.

Indeed, it would have taken a lot of resources away from quality content such as the motorcycle and LoV in order to make the tokens from Bismark and Ravana be exchangeable at a vendor in Idyllshire for unidentifiable items.

[Nalien]

Indeed, it would have taken a lot of resources away from quality content such as the motorcycle and LoV in order to make the tokens from Bismark and Ravana be exchangeable at a vendor in Idyllshire for unidentifiable items.

Well, not quite what I had in mind, but that works as well. Ideally I'd like, using 2.0 as an example;

Relic/Zodiac as they were, with the exception of Coil weapons being i95 from the get go.
Primal Focus weapons as they were, with a quest upgrading them taking drops from Coil; grinding T5 would eventually let you turn Holy Lance into a i100 version, for example. Later quests would involve the new Extreme Primals and Coils.

And development resources are indeed an argument against that, since it would be a new quest/weapon potentially, but I find that to be a pathetic argument, no matter how true it is. Why? Not because of Lords of Verminion or anything like that, but because they're running a subscription based MMO with a bleedin' cash shop. They should have ample resources available to them to make quality content, instead of "Go grind FATEs!". Should I be mad at SE for taking profits from this game and shoving them at a stupid FFVII remake? Should I be mad at Yoshida for not convincing SE to provide the resources he needs, you know, his job? Or should I just be mad at the developers, for opting to aggressively follow vertical progression into oblivion? Say what you will about Verminion being a waste of resources, the fact that content in this game has an expected lifespan of 6 months is a bigger waste IMO.

Ultimately I'll settle for being happy at Soken, because that Jukebox has been a long time coming.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Well, not quite what I had in mind, but that works as well. Ideally I'd like, using 2.0 as an example;

Relic/Zodiac as they were, with the exception of Coil weapons being i95 from the get go.
Primal Focus weapons as they were, with a quest upgrading them taking drops from Coil; grinding T5 would eventually let you turn Holy Lance into a i100 version, for example. Later quests would involve the new Extreme Primals and Coils.

And development resources are indeed an argument against that, since it would be a new quest/weapon potentially, but I find that to be a pathetic argument, no matter how true it is. Why? Not because of Lords of Verminion or anything like that, but because they're running a subscription based MMO with a bleedin' cash shop. They should have ample resources available to them to make quality content, instead of "Go grind FATEs!". Should I be mad at SE for taking profits from this game and shoving them at a stupid FFVII remake? Should I be mad at Yoshida for not convincing SE to provide the resources he needs, you know, his job? Or should I just be mad at the developers, for opting to aggressively follow vertical progression into oblivion? Say what you will about Verminion being a waste of resources, the fact that content in this game has an expected lifespan of 6 months is a bigger waste IMO.

Ultimately I'll settle for being happy at Soken, because that Jukebox has been a long time coming.

The first. Yoshi can demand all he likes, however if Square is unwilling to give his team a larger budget, nothing he says will do a damn thing. And if he protests, they'll replace him with someone who won't.