Why do so many people FAIL at dps.

[Yukiko]

And i thought they were just materia farming...

[SchalaZeal]

I do not Raid myself, so when I go DF or PF for a dungeon or something, and they start questioning why my NIN is doing 1179 dps versus 1300 dps

Never seen someone complain about anyone doing above 1000 dps on single, or for being 50 dps under their theoretical max EVEN in raids. It's more like when healers do 0 dps on bosses (where pull size doesn't enter calculations), when dps do 300-600 dps on bosses while not being dead, in i200 gear. Exceptions for some vanish-heavy bosses like the first of Neverreap (kinda breaks rotation every damn time) where 800-900 might be pretty reasonable.

If the healer is able to outdps you (and I have seen 600 dps Scholars in DF expert/lv 60), yeah, you're not even trying. And some mechanics (like Rose Dip or the adds at Belladonna) *can* wipe for lack of dps.

[Frederick22]

Incorrect.

First thing first are you consider a good player? Since I see on this thread people likes to frame orthers by using logs. How can I be sure you are good casual player? that you havent get critisices that you took bad or good?
My apologies but I cant take what you said seriously, I dont know you. How can I know you are just doing this to bother, beacuse you cant accept that you might not play good and you dont want to get corrected?

Second, what Pinkie saind and I totaly agreed, is thatwe can easely learn all jobs. If a persons is decent and capable, it can all be done my himself.
If you play the game slowly, if you have dummies, if you do your jobs quests correctly and slowly, if tests your skills, if you practise on dungeons/trails, if you accept your mistakes, if you take advice, if you search and loog for rotation guides, doing all this a player can become decent at his job. So yes the only thing that doesnt let you become a good player is yourselfs. Most players fail and arent good beacause they skip most of this things are pointed, beacuse they didnt notice, are lazy or dont even care.

I dont say that eveyone can become good by themselfs, sure some people will need more help and advice. But is more than clear than most of us can learn job to play by yourselfs.

Again I'm not talking about transforming all of us into hardcore players. Only into normal players that play their job normaly.

Again sorry, I won't ever even speak about this again, even if people are afk auto attacking, I have no right to say anything like you said or anyone else said to me for I am not a great dps, i'm just like them it seems, ones that afk dps or don't try even if I do my very best.
Again, I'm sorry.

Just ignore. Dont say sorry. You are giving them what they want.

Pinkie, I feel bad for you due to how the post turned out. But please see it from our perspectives.

As a DPS myself, I tried healing, and I struggle with some content. I can tank a little, but not all content. I can also learn a fight faster as a dps, in this case, NIN. I think your perspective is set this way because it sound like you play all roles equally, so you expect others to play that role the same. Being a dps main, topics like this offends many of us, and most of the community are dominantly dps players. There's always going to be complaints in any role.

- The tank lost aggro on a pull; he's bad or lazy.
- The healer tossed one Stone too many and couldn't get Benediction off; he's bad or lazy.
- The tank is wearing VIT accessories in a dungeon; he's lazy.
- The DRG used Jump at the wrong time, so he got caught in the AoE; he's bad because he don't know the enemy.

These things list are considered mistakes at times. "The NIN is 6 on the hate list." Why? Because the tank set his pull macro for 20 seconds, but he pulled at 10 seconds. Mudras wasn't ready. Used Shadewalker on the tank. Had to get in melee range. Those three things happened while those who normally play with that tank knew he was pulling at 10 and were already prepared.

Think about this:

Someone who fulltimes a DPS may not always give 100% depending on the content. Some of us get "lazy" to the point where we only mainly use our heavy-hitters on the trash instead of full rotations. This may or may not include dots. If you're performing YOUR best, they might be performing THEIR best. YOUR best shouldn't include watching if I'm keeping up Huton, or question why I use Kassatsu + Doton on grouped mobs.

Personally, I just don't care how most people play. The dps complaints mostly stem from Raid content, then that mentality is brought over to lesser content like dungeons. Many people who don't Raid do not Raid for a reason, and they care less about what others say about how they play in lesser content. I do not Raid myself, so when I go DF or PF for a dungeon or something, and they start questioning why my NIN is doing 1179 dps versus 1300 dps, I still remain quiet, because if I just do a /sit, then I'm doing 0 damage, and that'll REALLY give them something to get mad about.

Or, I could suggest to them that I can leave and they find a replacement. Sometimes, that gets them upset, too, because now that got to wait an hour for the PF to fill again. And guess what? Waiting around doing nothing grants you zero dps anyway. I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS stress if people have issues with how others play, then they should stick with their group instead of pugging.

Thank you so much for your comment, thats is part of what I tried to say. I agree with comment, we can ignore on how people play most of the time, and sometimes give a little help or a guide.
But if we meet with someone who has none experience or is only auto atacking or being carried/trolling in content of lvl51+, tell me how can we ignore that? Wasnt that the point of Pinki's thread?
To make everyone clear a difference between this 2 kinds of low players?

[Elazu]

Yup. We totally want and encourage people to be lazy and bad.


*GIGANTIC EYE ROLL*

Are you intentionally oblivious to all the comments of players attacking people who are advocating better play/asking for DPS to have responsibilites and the "they pay the monthly fee so they can play how they want" crowd?

[ChalupaBatman]

DISCLAIMER: I did NOT bother reading all 29 pages of drivel.

Honestly when I come across a player and I notice that they are doing sub-par. whether that be because the mobs are dieing slow, I see them not using any skills, or my 6th sense kicks in and i know their numbers (im basically a super hero) i kinda just suck it up and carry. If people are such god-tier players that they claim to be then this should be a walk in the park, hell even an average player can carry people through anything, but Savage and maybe thordan EX. If its Duty finder suck it up or leave and if its PF i usually remove and b-list.

I do agree that players need a better metric on what a "good" player looks like whether that be the implementation of a parser or a grading system or something.

I also dont mind if people choose to play however they want. They just wont be playing with me.

EDIT: I was notified that I may be insulting people at the beginning of my post, I did not mean that to anyone personally more towards the idea of the conversation in which i think kind of pointless.

[dekal]

Are you intentionally oblivious to all the comments of players attacking people who are advocating better play/asking for DPS to have responsibilites and the "they pay the monthly fee so they can play how they want" crowd?

If this were a single player video game console, I would agree with you 100%, but this is a mmo that you need to interact with people. It doesn't make sense for people saying, "I do t really need to talk to anyone to have some time of socialization". Even if a player just does MB and DoL/DoH, they will interact with people if they want to make a profit such as make pf offering their services.

Even a person, in real life, living by themselves need to interact with others, and they need to do it in a "normal" way as our society has established or you isolate itself and become that minor group of ppl the rest just don't want to be around.

[TheUltimateSeph]

On your point about crafting and gathering it doesn't go both ways in the slightest. Those are solo tasks. They don't involve anyone but yourself. The reason people don't "slam" people for it is because it doesn't effect anyone but themselves.

Combat on the other hand does not just effect you. You go into a duty with 3/7/23 other people. To simply not do what your class is supposed to do because you 'don't care' as you put it is extremely rude to the other people you get in your duty. Im fine with people being new to the game, I'm fine with people not being as good as others. There comes a limit however where you can't just expect people to put up with it. If someone is doing less damage at 60 than people were doing at 50 then something is really, really wrong.

Also to ask why other people should care? maybe cause its not NPCs in your duties but actually people?

I don't entirely agree but ok maybe it doesn't go both ways in the way most people would think. People being bad or lazy at crafting does effect everyone though. But even if it didn't some people play to craft and their DoW/DoM classes are a side thing. If they want to play the bare minimum when it comes to DoW/M classes because that's not what they play for fun I don't blame them. If someone doesn't like that they are free to leave the duty (or vote kick but I usually avoid that cause harassment claims). Others just play a couple hours each session maybe 2-3 days a week because to them the game is an escape from life, not life itself. A lot of these people don't like the game to be super hard or to have to think about skill rotations and other complicated stuff. Just log in, press buttons, watch pretty lights. It does drive me crazy sometimes and I'm not saying they all have good excuses. It makes me sad that some content gets nerfed to cater to this but I have to remember that SE is making their game accessible to everyone they can. The pro players still get their savage primals and raids. What I think this game really needs is an easy mode, a normal mode, and a hard mode for all DF content with rewards scaled to match. If the "bads" don't want to put in as much effort as other players they wouldn't need top tier gear to clear their easy content anyway. And any complaints from them about how top gear is gated behind content that is too hard should be ignored by SE. It's there for them to get if they put in the time or effort. Story related content for game progression could have a difficulty setting as well for those who may or may not want the extra challenge.

[Artemiz]

DISCLAIMER: I did NOT bother reading all 29 pages of drivel.

Honestly when I come across a player and I notice that they are doing sub-par. whether that be because the mobs are dieing slow, I see them not using any skills, or my 6th sense kicks in and i know their numbers (im basically a super hero) i kinda just suck it up and carry. If people are such god-tier players that they claim to be then this should be a walk in the park, hell even an average player can carry people through anything, but Savage and maybe thordan EX. If its Duty finder suck it up or leave and if its PF i usually remove and b-list.

I do agree that players need a better metric on what a "good" player looks like whether that be the implementation of a parser or a grading system or something.

I also dont mind if people choose to play however they want. They just wont be playing with me.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your post I do hope you realise that by insulting everyone else in the thread at the start of your post makes you look like an idiot.

[cgbspender]

I'm quite sure all the parsers have been wrong and been parsing wrong numbers. I can't think of why a dps would be that bad otherwise.

[Elim]

10/10

Worth reading every page. XD