Why do so many people FAIL at dps.

[Pinkie_Pie]

While I have agreed with many of your posts, this one I do not. She hasn't derailed the thread, this is specifically what your thread is talking about. Why do DPS refuse to use tools provided to them to maximize their output, meanwhile as a WAR you are refusing to use the tools available to you to maximize your output.

There is an argument for VIT, which I disagree with, but that is (in part) the answer to your question of why people do not maximize their output.

PS: VIT gear doesn't make you take less damage, STR gear does.

I never said I am refusing to use strength, I said I'm one of those *vit* tanks. I use gear I need to tank for the boss base off healer gear and permission and progression, if a healer wants me having more health, I go full vit, if a healer can't keep me healed through cooldowns off the first phase, then I put on more vit, I shouldn't have to make the healers job harder just to pump out that 100 dps over that 550 dps just cause *min/maxing dps". Just because i'm not wearing full strength doesn't mean I'm failing the group and not pulling my weight, the main tank job is one, survival first, dps second, not the other way around, yoshi p is addressing that sorta mentality which I can't wait for.

Btw, strength does not effect parry anymore, parry is always a flat 20% reduction so building full strength doesn't make you take less damage and if you mean "My self heals", I can get 5k self heal without zerk and with it get 7.6k noncrit self heal soo *shrugs* and if you are talking about threat, I hold threat just fine in full vit soo *shrugs*

But like you said I guess this will answer me why dps can't maximize or at least try to do their dps cause they are refusing to wear gear for a fight

Actually no, evidence was presented to dispute the OP's claims that they were a good DPS, when in actuality, that doesn't look to be true, making this thread a hypocritical mess.

But hey, we all know you're absolutely chomping at the bit to start on the anti-parser rants again.

Crappy evidence that is broken glass with mud all over it but I guess something is better then nothing for people like you and him, I already said why but all you see is *numbers* at the end of the fight of a internet page of someone *logged* it in doing a carry of a undergeared monk just to smash me. Congrats, go pat yourself on the back and drink that beer, YOU SHOULD GOT ME!

[Kaurie]

I never said I am refusing to use strength, I said I'm one of those *vit* tanks. I use gear I need to tank for the boss base off healer gear and permission and progression, if a healer wants me having more health, I go full vit, if a healer can't keep me healed through cooldowns off the first phase, then I put on more vit, I shouldn't have to make the healers job harder just to pump out that 100 dps over that 550 dps just cause *min/maxing dps". Just because i'm not wearing full strength doesn't mean I'm failing the group and not pulling my weight, the main tank job is one, survival first, dps second, not the other way around, yoshi p is addressing that sorta mentality which I can't wait for.

Btw, strength does not effect parry anymore, parry is always a flat 20% reduction so building full strength doesn't make you take less damage and if you mean "My self heals", I can get 5k self heal without zerk and with it get 7.6k noncrit self heal soo *shrugs* and if you are talking about threat, I hold threat just fine in full vit soo *shrugs*

But like you said I guess this will answer me why dps can't maximize or at least try to do their dps cause they are refusing to wear gear for a fight

Well your reaction to their comment made it seem like you would refuse to use STR, because only elitist people require you to wear STR and you should be able to play how you see fit.

As for VIT vs STR there, you need enough VIT to handle a tank buster and anything that follows while healing to your appropriate armor levels + cooldowns. Anything above that makes the healers job harder, because you are killing things more slowly and thus taking more damage. This previous statement is why STR results in you taking less damage, not due to parry or self heals.

This particular reaction "Oh nice, another one of those "YOU NEED TO NOT WEAR FULL VIT, YOUR BAD CAUSE I R ELITIST DERP"" resulted in a loss of your credibility from my perspective.


As for the main discussion, your point is that +VIT may help you have greater survivability. Let's bring it back to the MCH you referenced in your OP. This MCH refused to use barrel, because he could put out greater DPS because he could move without cast times. It is possible that at his skill level, he found that he was unable to keep up appropriate DPS and dodge AoE's effectively. It may not be the best optimal rotation, but it's perhaps the best for him to maintain survivability and output the greatest DPS he can. (Sorry if it was a she, I didn't want to type (s)he every time). That would be similar to you and your situation, it's possible to do all this content in full STR, but at your skill level, perhaps you find you are best suited to have VIT.

[Pinkie_Pie]

snip

I said what I had to say to defend myself from someone who kept attacking me at log numbers which BTW I was *not* asked to have up for other people to see and judge me because I wouldn't wear a full strength accessories just cause, yes, you can do *all content in full strength* and have only 20k health, but will your *healers* like you. Will your group like you? If that healer missed that heal or cooldown and you died from a tankbuster, who do they blame, *the tank* for not having a cooldown and if you said you used a cooldown, where does that lead, back to the healer which stresses them out and ends them up leaving the group. But clearly now you are bashing at my skill level for wearing vit for those *clears* with that passive-aggressive statement. I'm done talking with you now and back at the topic at hand on why dps is *lazy* on doing dps when they need to dps in dungeons.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I said what I had to say to defend myself from someone who kept attacking me at log numbers which BTW I was *not* asked to have up for other people to see and judge me because I wouldn't wear a full strength accessories just cause, yes, you can do *all content in full strength* and have only 20k health, but will your *healers* like you. Will your group like you? If that healer missed that heal or cooldown and you died from a tankbuster, who do they blame, *the tank* for not having a cooldown and if you said you used a cooldown, where does that lead, back to the healer which stresses them out and ends them up leaving the group. But clearly now you are bashing at my skill level for wearing vit for those *clears*. I'm done talking with you now and back at the topic at hand on why dps is *lazy* on doing dps when they need to dps in dungeons.

No one is "attacking" you. Someone first made a rebuttal based on your claims of producing high tier DPS, then criticised your flippant "STR R ELITIST" remark. While that may not have been the intent, you didn't articulate it well. In any event, you're ignoring the point referenced: that perhaps the MCH you mentioned found using barrel hindered his/her group more than it benefited all due to their current skill level.

This thread essentially boils down to, "play the most optimal way possible to maximize DPS." If you're going to criticise DPS for perceived subpar performance, then you have to be willing to acknowledge STR is better than VIT for a direct damage perspective. You can't ignore context for one scenario, not the other.

[Pinkie_Pie]

that perhaps the MCH you mentioned found using barrel hindered his/her group more than it benefited all due to their current skill level.

This thread essentially boils down to, "play the most optimal way possible to maximize DPS." If you're going to criticise DPS for perceived subpar performance, then you have to be willing to acknowledge STR is better than VIT for a direct damage perspective. You can't ignore context for one scenario, not the other.

I guess that mage spamming fire 3 blizzard 3 is the most optimal way of possible to maximize their dps. I guess that dps using his afk macro dps skills is optimal for that void ark raid or better yet, afk auto attacking. My tanking and acknowledgement of strength vs vit has nothing to do with dps being lazy in this thread.

OP complains about bad dps and claims they can pick up any class and maximize its potential, yet buys Thordan EX carries. Seems legit -_- It's a game by the way, why you getting your panties in a bunch over dps not being max potential when you can't even do it consistently yourself? Oh nvm I know why, *cough* attention *cough cough*

Now you are just a troll, the term "being carried" stands for more then one thing. *roll eyes*

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I guess that mage spamming fire 3 blizzard 3 is the most optimal way of possible to maximize their dps. I guess that dps using his afk macro dps skills is optimal for that void ark raid or better yet, afk auto attacking. My tanking and acknowledgement of strength vs vit has nothing to do with dps being lazy in this thread.

Yes, because that is what my post insinuated. It's not like STR tanking has been proven so efficient that it's getting patched or anything. So of course it's comparable to an ice mage.

[Kaurie]

I said what I had to say to defend myself from someone who kept attacking me at log numbers which BTW I was *not* asked to have up for other people to see and judge me because I wouldn't wear a full strength accessories just cause, yes, you can do *all content in full strength* and have only 20k health, but will your *healers* like you. Will your group like you? If that healer missed that heal or cooldown and you died from a tankbuster, who do they blame, *the tank* for not having a cooldown and if you said you used a cooldown, where does that lead, back to the healer which stresses them out and ends them up leaving the group. But clearly now you are bashing at my skill level for wearing vit for those *clears*. I'm done talking with you now and back at the topic at hand on why dps is *lazy* on doing dps when they need to dps.

I am not bashing at you for anything, I am simply contributing to the discussion at hand and drawing parallels between the STR/VIT issue and your original topic.

Whether your healers like you or not depends on the healers. When I heal progression, I tell my tanks to wear as much STR as they can (given the level of tank busters and gear level). For reference, I mained SCH for all of 2.x and have mained SMN, but also played SCH/WHM for various ex primal runs in 3.x.

As for being lazy, I said in my last post why that Gauss Barrel may have been less about being lazy, and more about doing what worked best for them.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of bad players and players who simply refuse to play well. Some who are too lazy to read tooltips or quest text to learn the basics, and so on. I am not trying to suggest that given the information at hand, you are the bottom of the barrel lowest skilled and laziest player; however, I am saying that some people who you are suggesting are may have had reasons similar to your own for wearing VIT.

I'd like to circle this back to this quote

who do they blame

That is the kicker isn't it. I have found from personal experience, and from reading various articles and discussions, that there seems to be a correlation between people 'blaming' something and their skill level. That is to say, it seems that the less skilled a player is, the more likely they are to pass blame on to others. This is a defense technique due to feeling threatened. There is an article that touches on this topic; however, it specifically looks at sexism in games and where men are more likely to be sexist against female players if they are less skilled. The conclusion was drawn that they are more likely to feel threatened, and in order to protect their ego they put the female players down. I'd venture a guess that this conclusion can be drawn on a larger scale with my above hypothesis "the less skilled a player is, the more likely they are to pass blame on to others".

Here is a link to the study if anyone is interested: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613

Conclusion: I would not be very concerned about people passing blame, as it's very likely they are the ones at fault. Instead, focus on working together to overcome obstacles, and see how you can work synergistically instead.