Why do so many people FAIL at dps.

[Pinkie_Pie]

1. Item level doesn't result in a 500 DPS difference
2. If you're being carried, then you're bad, and therefore lose all credibility in calling out other DPS
3. Hence why I also brought up your NIN numbers as well, which are abysmally low. You've had 4 separate NIN parses, if you've been dead for all 4, then you are taking unnecessary damage and thus are still bad
4. See above post.

Also why are you being carried? That MNK parse was Dec 21st, your WAR parses go all the way back to Dec 4th (which, btw, aside from ONE clear, your WAR numbers are HALF that of "Good" WAR numbers)

1. Item level doesn't result in a 500 DPS difference. It does when you have rez sickness, genius.
2. If you're being carried, then you're bad, and therefore lose all credibility in calling out other DPS I can't stop other dps or healers running into me on pizza slices, killing me in the end, I can't stop from dying from bad healers not able to heal dive bombs or better yet, the aoe phase at the end but clearly i'm bad for not able to second wind all that damage and keep up the good fight. Clearly.
3. Hence why I also brought up your NIN numbers as well, which are abysmally low. You've had 4 separate NIN parses, if you've been dead for all 4, then you are taking unnecessary damage and thus are still bad Goes back to my statement before, 191 item level ninja with its 190 hive weapon in mix if 185-190 stuff, that's not including dying to aoe due to lack of heals which goes back to statement 1 and 2.

Also why are you being carried? That MNK parse was Dec 21st, your WAR parses go all the way back to Dec 4th (which, btw, aside from ONE clear, your WAR numbers are HALF that of "Good" WAR numbers)
Too easy, just too easy. one, I was MT'ing *every single clear* listed (which doesn't tell you that) two, I was wasn't wearing *full strength* like every other warrior out there, i'm a *vit* warrior(you know, the tanks that wear health) and I wasn't sitting in dps stance tanking thordin in full strength like every other warrior, 4, I don't have tons of gil to make or buy melded accessories to min/max my tanking.

Again, you are just picking out the piece to use something for fire. The numbers you are pulling don't even tell the event of the fight let alone the deaths involved, but keep on thinking those logs the ends to the means of all evidence that happened those days to counter claim and prove your point.

Not another 1 of these threads. I mean its DF, wtf are you expecting to get paired with server best DPS?

You don't have to do the max dps but you at least gotta try to dps, refusing to use your skills because "eeeh I don't feel like it" burdens the *group* as a whole and have to carry your weight cause they are too lazy. Why even que up in the first place, don't que if you don't wish to give at least your semi-best. By your statement you say "Eh, let the level 60 mage spam cold spells"

[Ashelia_Ferron]

snip

A VIT tank huh?
There is 0 need to have anything over 17k HP outside of Defiance.

When 3.2 comes out and the changes to tank damage (Whatever that means) is implemented, then sure. Go full VIT. But otherwise you're not even maximizing DPS on your MAIN CLASS.

And dont' go here saying "A tank is supposed to tank and that's that" because we all know that with this game's meta, a Tank is far from your average "I just turtle and keep hate" tank.

AND, 400 DPS is still low for an MT WAR. If my static's PLD can maintain 600 DPS in SHIELD OATH (and in case it wasn't obvious, he is MT), then surely the "Damage dealing Tank, WAR" can do just as much. And no, you don't need pentamelds, full slaying is sufficient, with maybe ONE fending ring



"I was dead, GG, my parse is good for being dead".

Yeah, sure. Maybe your next thread should be about how all raid healers should git gud and keep you alive? You seem to be dying an awful lot.

[Ashkendor]

Too easy, just too easy. one, I was MT'ing *every single clear* listed (which doesn't tell you that) two, I was wasn't wearing *full strength* like every other warrior out there, i'm a *vit* warrior(you know, the tanks that wear health) and I wasn't sitting in dps stance tanking thordin in full strength like every other warrior, 4, I don't have tons of gil to make or buy melded accessories to min/max my tanking.

Erm. Your WAR parses are below some of my PLD parses. I MT and only leave Shield Oath when nothing is hitting me (Zephirin's first appearance and meteor phase). Even given that you're full VIT (I wear pentamelds because I find that full Slaying leaves me with uncomfortably low HP and puts stress on the healers), with the tools WAR has to maximize damage you should be higher.

Again, you are just picking out the piece to use something for fire. The numbers you are pulling don't even tell the event of the fight let alone the deaths involved, but keep on thinking those logs the ends to the means of all evidence that happened those days to counter claim and prove your point.

The fact of the matter is, you made some very elitist statements pertaining to other DPS players in your original post. You claimed that you can just pick up a DPS class and maximize its potential, and further stated that it's easy to do so. I mean... seriously? I feel that I'm pretty decent as a monk, but I won't come running to the official forums basically claiming to be the Queen of Monks and that I can poop out maximum DPS on it. I think you're confusing "I know my rotation and am passably competent on the class," with "I know how to fully maximize DPS." Anyone that reads tooltips and takes the time to figure out how the skills fit together on the most basic level can be passably competent at a class. Maximizing DPS takes time, practice, and gear.

Some logs have been posted that provided some evidence to refute your claim, but instead of countering with evidence of your own (maybe there's more logs that you can upload where you're performing better?) you're making excuses why the logs that were posted shouldn't be admissible, as it were. I don't see how "I died," "I'm not very well geared," or "I was being carried" are valid excuses for bad DPS when you're making a claim like that though. Not getting yourself killed is part of maximizing DPS. Gearing properly is part of maximizing DPS. It should go without saying that if you're maximizing your DPS, you are pulling your own weight.

I have to agree with the poster a couple of pages ago that mentioned glass houses and stones.

[Pinkie_Pie]

Erm. Your WAR parses are below some of my PLD parses. I MT and only leave Shield Oath when nothing is hitting me (Zephirin's first appearance and meteor phase). Even given that you're full VIT (I wear pentamelds because I find that full Slaying leaves me with uncomfortably low HP and puts stress on the healers), with the tools WAR has to maximize damage you should be higher.

The fact of the matter is, you made some very elitist statements pertaining to other DPS players in your original post. You claimed that you can just pick up a DPS class and maximize its potential, and further stated that it's easy to do so. I mean... seriously? I feel that I'm pretty decent as a monk, but I won't come running to the official forums basically claiming to be the Queen of Monks and that I can poop out maximum DPS on it. I think you're confusing "I know my rotation and am passably competent on the class," with "I know how to fully maximize DPS." Anyone that reads tooltips and takes the time to figure out how the skills fit together on the most basic level can be passably competent at a class. Maximizing DPS takes time, practice, and gear.

Some logs have been posted that provided some evidence to refute your claim, but instead of countering with evidence of your own (maybe there's more logs that you can upload where you're performing better?) you're making excuses why the logs that were posted shouldn't be admissible, as it were. I don't see how "I died," "I'm not very well geared," or "I was being carried" are valid excuses for bad DPS when you're making a claim like that though. Not getting yourself killed is part of maximizing DPS. Gearing properly is part of maximizing DPS. It should go without saying that if you're maximizing your DPS, you are pulling your own weight.

I have to agree with the poster a couple of pages ago that mentioned glass houses and stones.

Him posting my log numbers is name shaming and is very rude and is against the rules of the board, those numbers don't show anything but numbers, they don't show skills used, cooldowns used and on on, just numbers at the end of the fight when I main tanked, not the overall.

I may seem elitist with my comment "picking up something and bringing out the max dps" of that class if I pick it up. Yes, I am wrong on that, it takes *time* to learn the dps class but at least i'm putting *effort* on doing just *that*, what I had doing those misuse logs was due to deaths, rez sickness or due to gear, reasons why any dps can be low in the dps logs at the end of the fight which should not have hold water with a argument towards me. But what I am not doing is refusing to not use skills cause I'm lazy on not using it in general, example, a monk only boostrap/twin snakes/ demolish combo string spam repeatedly while not moving a single spot, no death touch, no snap punch, no dragon kick. Or a mage just using a macro to do his spells to spam 1 fire/ice 1 or fire 3/blizzard 3 back to back, or a brd just spamming heavy shot and straight shot and bloodletter etc etc etc.

Some logs have been posted that provided some evidence to refute your claim, but instead of countering with evidence of your own (maybe there's more logs that you can upload where you're performing better?)

Posting dps logs is against the ToS of these forums and I do not have a dps meter and I refuse to install it cause people like him using it as a weapon for people who wish to speak out about people wanting to be lazy while dpsing.

you're making excuses why the logs that were posted shouldn't be admissible, as it were. I don't see how "I died," "I'm not very well geared," or "I was being carried" are valid excuses for bad DPS when you're making a claim like that though. Not getting yourself killed is part of maximizing DPS. Gearing properly is part of maximizing DPS. It should go without saying that if you're maximizing your DPS, you are pulling your own weight.

I have to agree with the poster a couple of pages ago that mentioned glass houses and stones.

When a dps is undergeared for thordin and dies doing dive bomb cause he got no heals or not enough heals, its his fault for not maximizing dps? what? By your statement if a dps dies to unavoidable aoe damage its his fault wither hes geared or not, but still, my statement stays even if you guys can say what you want and bash on my undergeared dps or my MT dps(which I cleared on), it doesn't change the fact there are *lazy* dps that is *ARE* properly geared, not die and but will not care on properly on using their dps skills, haven't learn it or refuse to learn. They just push buttons so lights glow.

So go ahead, keep bringing up those logs and keep commenting on my low undergeared dps and low main tanking dps but all in all, you aren't saying *anything* towards the topic at hand on people who don't wish to learn to try to do their best at their dps class.

[CairbreDanache]

So go ahead, keep bringing up those logs and keep commenting on my low undergeared dps and low main tanking dps but all in all, you aren't saying *anything* towards the topic at hand on people who don't wish to learn to try to do their best at their dps class.

But.... everything that has been said so far -HAS- been towards the topic of people who don't wish to learn to try their best and do better DPS...

It's just that the people being referenced in this case happen to be you.

Funny that.

[RiceisNice]

When a dps is undergeared for thordin and dies doing dive bomb cause he got no heals or not enough heals, its his fault for not maximizing dps? what? By your statement if a dps dies to unavoidable aoe damage its his fault wither hes geared or not, but still, my statement stays even if you guys can say what you want and bash on my undergeared dps or my MT dps(which I cleared on), it doesn't change the fact there are *lazy* dps that is *ARE* properly geared, not die and but will not care on properly on using their dps skills, haven't learn it or refuse to learn. They just push buttons so lights glow.

Quit throwing things out of context. There's no reason for you to be dying to avoidable damage if you care about not being a waste of a party slot. The person you're replying to isn't even talking about deaths in general (which at times can be out of your control), but deaths that you yourself caused (Not getting yourself killed). On top of that, being undergeared is a liability to your survival anyway, and on top of that Thordan has a Ilvl requirement so unless you're boosting your Ilvl with accessories (which is a different problem), you can't be undergeared.

[whiskeybravo]

those numbers don't show anything but numbers, they don't show skills used, cooldowns used and on on, just numbers at the end of the fight when I main tanked, not the overall.

Actually, they do show all the skills you used and when you used them. How much damage you take and from what abilities and when. TP and MP efficiency, interrupts, etc etc. A bunch of stuff, really.

[Kafei]

Posting dps logs is against the ToS of these forums and I do not have a dps meter and I refuse to install it cause people like him using it as a weapon for people who wish to speak out about people wanting to be lazy while dpsing.

it *would* be *a* crime *for* someone *to* want to *use* some *sort* of *dps* meter as a *weapon* against someone, wouldn't *it*?

I can't wait for them to add faust-sensei so I can see their dps just to boot them on bad dps/damage before doing any content.

I strongly *advise* you to *consider* going from *a* glass *house* to *plastic*


...how is "getting carried" not "being lazy while DPSing"?

[CBellz]

those numbers don't show anything but numbers, they don't show skills used, cooldowns used and on on.

Thank you OP for entertaining me so much in this thread . Let me take a look at these logs and show you that they do in fact show all of these things.


On your highest (i mean that relatively) ninja parse you are roughly 15-20 auto attacks short of where you should be, without any deaths. You used only 15 aeolian edges when you have a WAR in the party that used SE 23 times, the number of AEs should be close to 30. In fact, the logs suggest that you weren't using all your GCDs and oGCDs optimally. I see only 300 total skills cast, when that number should be closer to 340+ with that clear time. You also uh.. used sprint at the end and lost Huton. Your DPS isn't optimal becuase you're not using all your skills effectively. Please don't use gear as an excuse.

In general, I don't like to see people complain about low DPS from other players when I feel that they aren't exactly at the highest level of competency either. i.e. Why do you feel you have the right to call out a player that is playing at 20% of the job's potential when you yourself can only play at 50%?