Regarding the Localization of Haurchefant in the EN/FR/DE Versions of FFXIV

[Teiren]

Okay, at this point I think we're splitting hairs here.

Here we have a Dev responding to outcry, giving a personal apology, and sincerely saying that it will be avoided in future. We should be THRILLED that the Devs care so much about the quality of our localization and our satisfaction with it. They also can admit and learn from mistakes. 100% win here, I don't see the controversy at all. If you want to beat the dead horse about how is shouldn't have happened in the first place, welp, unless you know a way to make it so it never happened, you can't ask for anything more than this

Yeah, I agree. I don't mean to harp on him. I just think it's interesting to see the different perspectives of localization. I'm surprised he didn't lock the topic, so it's nice he didn't.

[KaitlanKela]

And this is not a Western MMO, hence the rest of your comment does not apply.

Except that it was a western localization, so it does?

And here's another fact for you: you have the right to be creeped out, but you don't have the right to not let others enjoy the game the way it is originally meant to be.

The key word here is enjoy. They honestly thought we wouldn't enjoy it. They were wrong, but as I said before it was an honest mistake. They really were looking out for us, even if they were misguided.

Actually...

They said they'd do better. They said they would consult the JP team before making any more major changes. Somehow I doubt changes would fly from here on, considering the feedback here. So basically, you're going on about how they should...do the thing they said they would do...and not do the thing they did ever again...which is exactly what was promised?

[Fenral]

That lore confusion you're talking about, I was reminded of it when in 3.1,

Since it's me talking, I was thinking way further back, but I've said my piece on that plenty elsewhere. Some gambles pay off, some really don't. Hopefully they've learned from the experience even though nothing has ever been said on it, officially or otherwise.

[Tenkuu]

Since it's me talking, I was thinking way further back, but I've said my piece on that plenty elsewhere. Some gambles pay off, some really don't. Hopefully they've learned from the experience even though nothing has ever been said on it, officially or otherwise.

No worries, I was just giving a very recent example that your comment reminded me of. Certainly Midgarsormr and Haurchefant remain as much more glaring examples of it though.

[Tenkuu]

Except that it was a western localization, so it does?

Your point being? All that a localization is is a translation. The original game remains a japanese one. Besides, the whole argument here revolves around the fact that only the english version is badly translated. Also, not just the West uses the english version, but also people in Europe and Australia.

The key word here is enjoy. They honestly thought we wouldn't enjoy it. They were wrong, but as I said before it was an honest mistake. They really were looking out for us, even if they were misguided.

Yeah, and this whole thread is about people responding and saying why they didn't enjoy the game as much *because* of a bad translation. Again, discussion on how to make things better is not a bad thing.

They said they'd do better. They said they would consult the JP team before making any more major changes. Somehow I doubt changes would fly from here on, considering the feedback here. So basically, you're going on about how they should...do the thing they said they would do...and not do the thing they did ever again...which is exactly what was promised?

As I was saying, we're only pointing out examples of what can be done better and how, which is why the thread is useful to respond to. The statement they made about consulting with the Japanese team is only a general one. Getting actual feedback from their players helps them to better understand what we really want, as opposed to what they think we want. Something like not changing certain characters' personalities is very specific.

[KaitlanKela]

Your point being? All that a localization is is a translation. The original game remains a japanese one. Besides, the whole argument here revolves around the fact that only the english version is badly translated. Also, not just the West uses the english version, but also people in Europe and Australia.

Okay, Europe and Australia are actually considered the West. "Western" in this context is not a geographical thing. It's differentiating the cultures that arose from classical/Christian philosophy from those that came from Ancient Eastern philosophies like Buddhism and Confucianism. The fact that I'm having to explain this to you is kinda making this argument seem a little pointless.

Yeah, and this whole thread is about people responding and saying why they didn't enjoy the game as much *because* of a bad translation. Again, discussion on how to make things better is not a bad thing.

Basically you're wanting it more like the Japanese, right? So the localization team is working more closely with the Original JP team. This is exactly what you want. Yes, it's general, but any more specific thing you post is splitting hairs and 1) is making it look like what they're doing isn't good enough for you and 2) kinda pointless because Yoshi's opinion matters so much more than yours and I would rather the localization team ask him his opinion then come to the official forums any day of the week.

[Lukha]

Basically you're wanting it more like the Japanese, right? So the localization team is working more closely with the Original JP team. This is exactly what you want. Yes, it's general, but any more specific thing you post is splitting hairs and 1) is making it look like what they're doing isn't good enough for you and 2) kinda pointless because Yoshi's opinion matters so much more than yours and I would rather the localization team ask him his opinion then come to the official forums any day of the week.

Actually, one could argue that the opinion of the paying customers matters much more than anything else, since its their willingness to keep paying subscription fees that will make or break the game?

And I don't know about anyone else, but doing better in the future isn't good enough for me, especially considering the Heavensward translation, which is the product of that attempt and still contains some glaringly necessary changes to the script. If someone does something incorrectly, aren't they usually expected to do it over the right way? While I'm very happy to see that SE as a company and Corvinoobus as a person are big enough to come out and publicly admit and apologize for their mistakes, it's almost meaningless if they're not actually going to fix those errors.

I can almost understand not rerecording the English dialogue, even though it would be the right thing to do; the funds might simply not be there. But they absolutely must fix the text so it's accurate, whether that means the text no longer matches the English voice acting, or they just offer the option to select between the accurate translation and the over-localized one.

[KaitlanKela]

Actually, one could argue that the opinion of the paying customers matters much more than anything else, since its their willingness to keep paying subscription fees that will make or break the game?

One could argue that. One could argue that the OF is hardly a representative sample of the playerbase. In fact, I didn't even know this was a problem until I came here. I think most english speaking players are actually none the wiser. In fact, if they had gone with a more authentic text the first time, the OF may have had an entirely different group of players lamenting about how they couldn't relate to Hauchefant because he was kinda creepy to them, you have no idea.


If you want them to fix the text, that creates a disparity between what some players experienced and what future players will experience, which seems like bad game design. for obvious reasons. It may seem like this is something small to fix, but we don't know where the game is going and having two different "canon"s may really disrupt future story arcs. Retconning is really dangerous from a writing perspective and not very professional and very immersion-breaking. I mean, feel free to ask for it, but I don't think you'll get it.

Personally, even if it wasn't bad storytelling, I don't think retconning is necessary. The changes were so minute they were easily overlooked by pretty much everyone until it was pointed out to them.

[Lukha]

That disparity is already present in every other aspect of the game, though? An MMO is a living work in progress, with constant changes and tweaks being made; why should the story be held to a different standard, as if it's some sacred, immutable dogma that can't be changed once it's set down, no matter how wrong it is? All they'd have to do is mention it in the patch notes; people who care about the lore can go back and rewatch the effected cutscenes (although most of them are probably already aware of the changes that were made), while people who don't won't be affected.

The bottom line is, don't bother apologizing if you have no intention of fixing the problem; words are meaningless if you don't take action to back them up.

[Fenral]

Localization retcons have happened before. There was a pretty big official post when this one happened, too. It's been done before, so no point trying to argue that "it can't be done." I just wish they'd retcon the rest of the damn thing...