The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why (Ver. 2)

[Februs]

I very rarely use Dissipation. Almost every other tool in my box of scholar tricks gets regular use. The big exception, though, is Summon. Selene is almost a permanent fixture in my dungeons and raids. I have very little use for Eos other than an occasional Fey Illumination + Rouse + Whispering Dawn HoT bomb. That might be very silly of me, but between Fey Caress and Fey Wind, I find Selene kind of essential.

You're not the first person I've heard say this. I don't use Sch myself (yet), but I was in a Raid recently where practically everyone was commenting on how useless Eos is by comparison to Selene. It was a funny conversation, so I figured that they were just having a go, but since then I've heard more than a few others comment that they almost never use Eos over Selene.

[technole]

You're not the first person I've heard say this. I don't use Sch myself (yet), but I was in a Raid recently where practically everyone was commenting on how useless Eos is by comparison to Selene. It was a funny conversation, so I figured that they were just having a go, but since then I've heard more than a few others comment that they almost never use Eos over Selene.

Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar. Plus practically being able to throw up regens on the tanks without ever leaving cleric stance. Fey Covenant is such a good magic buff for many of the heavy magic damage fights in the game, including Thordan Extreme and Alexander Savage. Accidents happen, and that buff can effectively help someone to live on a mechanic that probably could have been their death. This is the Scholar's bread-and-butter: Mitigation.

Dissipation is also seen as a DPS skill as well, because 9 energy drains available is hard to turn down and there are plenty of instances where a fairy isn't needed for 30+ seconds in a fight, or maybe you are looking to change fairies anyway. It's not always about the healing buff, but rather the DPS advantage or just needing energy drain in a pinch.

[Februs]

Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar.

It's possible they were just kidding around as well. I got the impression that a few of them knew each other and the conversation was pretty funny to read. I wouldn't know one way or the other though, since I've never used Sch myself. If I do take it up, it's good to know that Eos has Raid utility. I'm assuming this works out best if your co-healer is running a role opposite of yours? (Ie: active mitigation via direct healing as opposed to mitigation buffs)

[TaleraRistain]

I don't raid (by choice) so this is speaking to uses outside endgame content. I haven't used Repose on my whm bar since I first ran Brayflox. Most groups I run through with now just burn everything. In fact, a lot of dungeons are grab it all and burn. So I also don't find as much use for spells that take too long to cast. I end up using Aero I instead of III due to the speed. I find I don't use Asylum much outside bosses because it gets wasted with how fast things die. I don't use Fluid Aura in a party. I use it all the time while soloing.

I want to use Miasma II but it seems unless I'm right up in the middle of the mobs (where the tank should be) it fails. I end up using Miasma, Bio, Bio II and then Baneing. I only use Ruin I if I'm synced and absolutely have to.

I use Stella on the ast while out soloing. PoM and Lightspeed I utilize while soloing. But I often forget about them in groups. All of these skills are still somewhere on my hotbars. They just aren't in the key slots.

[Miscreant]

Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar.

The only fight I use Eos for is A4S to be honest, there aren't many abilities that can mitigate Mortal Rev so Fey Covinent is really useful, also Rouse + Whispering Dawn makes healing through the dolls a lot easier. For everything else theres Selene, theres one big hit in Thordan and Soil + Adlo + Deployment tactics at already more than enough. Knowing when to Rouse Selene for Embrace spams should cover the party healing for the most part providing your co-healing is somewhat capable.

1. Virus

Please tell me you are trolling...

Maybe you've just run into some really crappy Pld's, but the downsides you're listing for Pld's cross-classing stone skin are ways in which the move should never be used in the first place. Like I said before, there's nothing willy-nilly about the way a Pld should be using the move, and they most certainly should not be using it as a replacement for their defensive CD's. Like all of their moves, they should be micromanaging it's use to fit in and work with their defensive kit. It's the same for any tank, really. They try to find synergy in their kit for which moves work with which and in what circumstances. The only move a Pld would ever use alone is Hallowed Ground (for obvious reasons).

Cross class skills are fight dependant, Stone Skin is pretty useless for Paladins as enemy attacks will cancel it's cast, but in some situations it's handy. In T13 Bahamut's attacks are somewhat slow but hit hard, there were parts in the fight where the healers would have to focus the party but there would be a big(ish) hit on the MT after, Paladin used to put Stoneskin on them selves for this. But this is a single fight out of many, it's really not something that is the norm.

[Joe_Schmoe]

Please tell me you are trolling...

I'm not. One, I've only done duty finder, with people with various attention spans (or lack thereof), no raiding or anything. It's an unimpressive skill considering the f***ing up we all do that makes the ability useless. Two, as it is now I'm already switching back and forth between 2 X-bars just to do my normal thing (healing and tanking) and I'm goofing up more often than I'd like. I basically have no room for it. Again, Virus just doesn't impress me enough to force me to try to figure out where to put it, and then hope to hell I'll know where it is when I really need it. More functions mean more malfunctions. Maybe if was to ever get into raiding - where people actually communicate with each other - I could probably make use of it. Until then, it sits on the shelf.

[DarkmoonVael]

I'm not. One, I've only done duty finder, with people with various attention spans (or lack thereof), no raiding or anything. It's an unimpressive skill considering the f***ing up we all do that makes the ability useless. Two, as it is now I'm already switching back and forth between 2 X-bars just to do my normal thing (healing and tanking) and I'm goofing up more often than I'd like. I basically have no room for it. Again, Virus just doesn't impress me enough to force me to try to figure out where to put it, and then hope to hell I'll know where it is when I really need it. More functions mean more malfunctions. Maybe if was to ever get into raiding - where people actually communicate with each other - I could probably make use of it. Until then, it sits on the shelf.

You do realise antibody became a thing after virus turned out to be far too powerful in T5 progression without a drawback right? And this is good old regular virus, not traited supervirus.

Virus is exceptionally powerful. Correct use of virus mitigates so much outgoing damage.

Although i get what you mean with virus in the content you are currently running. In dungeons its not as powerful as raids. When you start raiding you will be using it alot more often .

[technole]

The only fight I use Eos for is A4S to be honest, there aren't many abilities that can mitigate Mortal Rev so Fey Covinent is really useful, also Rouse + Whispering Dawn makes healing through the dolls a lot easier. For everything else theres Selene, theres one big hit in Thordan and Soil + Adlo + Deployment tactics at already more than enough. Knowing when to Rouse Selene for Embrace spams should cover the party healing for the most part providing your co-healing is somewhat capable.

I do prefer Selene as much as possible, I also think it's a preference depending on co-healer and party. Even if you want to use Whispering Dawn as effectively two tank regens like back in early A2S days when spike damages phases kind of hurt. Now I feel it doesn't matter, aside from DPS maybe making a croak about attack speed increases.

I also use Dissipation when possible to handle a fairy change for more DPS instead of the ole swift/change. A4S I feel Eos makes the most sense because of "limited" MP resources and Mortal Revolution is pretty heavy even at i210.

For Thordan, I always prefer Eos in the last phases to pad-up possible mistakes (lets just face it, Fey Convent is just too good to ignore in magic heavy situations). Every time I had played Scholar and had to deal with a Phase 9/enrage clear due to DPS earlier deaths, I always felt I had used the best option to preserve a win.

[Februs]

Cross class skills are fight dependant, Stone Skin is pretty useless for Paladins as enemy attacks will cancel it's cast, but in some situations it's handy. In T13 Bahamut's attacks are somewhat slow but hit hard, there were parts in the fight where the healers would have to focus the party but there would be a big(ish) hit on the MT after, Paladin used to put Stoneskin on them selves for this. But this is a single fight out of many, it's really not something that is the norm.

Again, any Pld who is letting their casts get interrupted (Clemency or Stoneskin) is simply an inexperienced Pld.

The dmg intake has to break a certain threshold for a cast bar to be interrupted (I don't remember the exact amount at the moment). Pld's have a higher dmg threshold than Healers, because they have significantly higher defense. The only things that can interrupt a Pld cast bar are Boss Cleaves, Tank Busters, and some of the party wide AoE moves. For this reason, experienced Pld's can easily plan their casts so that they do not get interrupted. This really is not that difficult to do.

T13 is a fine example, but it is far from the only example. In T9 it could be used to negate the Dmg from Raven's Beak, this was incredibly handy because RB is magic dmg, and only 2 of Pld's CD's can effect magical dmg. Stone Skin was a huge boon. Pld's also used it before each golum phase and before megaflare. If you want a more recent example, in Thordan EX a Pld can self buff between phases. They can get a cast off before / after Sacred cross, before / after meteors, before / after ultimate end, as well as provide additional mitigation during KotR 3. It's also possible to squeeze in a Stone Skin during Dragon's Gaze casts, but you need to know they're coming and start the cast early (which, by the way, is not a problem, because everything in that fight is scripted).

These are only 2 examples out of an entire game of examples. I can go through almost every fight in the game and tell you when and where it is safe and beneficial for a Pld to cast Stone Skin on themselves in which they will not get interrupted and can provide additional mitigation on top of their Defensive CD's. Anyone who says it's not very useful really does not know how to use it correctly on that job.

The only reason it's not the norm to see Pld's using Stone Skin, is because most Pld's either: (a) don't have the experience to know how to use it correctly, or (b) have been convinced that they shouldn't, because of that ridiculous myth that the cast bar will be interrupted 100% of the time.

[Miscreant]

The only reason it's not the norm to see Pld's using Stone Skin, is because most Pld's either: (a) don't have the experience to know how to use it correctly, or (b) have been convinced that they shouldn't, because of that ridiculous myth that the cast bar will be interrupted 100% of the time.

I only play Healers and Monk, Tanking hasn't ever interested me so I don't know the ins and outs, I only what I expect of them. But most of the time I will just Adlo or my Whm will Stoneskin our Tanks so that they can keeps dpsing, we only ever ask for them to do it if there is heavy party damage at a similar time.