Yoshi - Players who "Like" Challenges would ALSO like to obtain a Relic Weapon

[FeliAiko]

Still amusing that people are in opposition to this idea.

To whoever said that you can already do Extremes towards the Relic, well for one thing the Extremes only drop tomes. Hunts (Seals), Alex NM (Precision) and Beast Tribe (Tokens) drop tomes plus a reward unique to that content you can also use towards the Relic. Not exactly a 'choice' when one is not only far easier but offers more at the same time.

[Reilyn]

Still amusing that people are in opposition to this idea.

I don't find it amusing. Anyone who directly opposes the original idea of the thread is pretty much saying 'being skilled shouldn't be rewarded more than those who take the easy route'.

[Granyala]

I don't find it amusing. Anyone who directly opposes the original idea of the thread is pretty much saying 'being skilled shouldn't be rewarded more than those who take the easy route'.

Well being skilled and being lucky enough to find a competent & stable static raid group already rewards you: you get to see awesome bossfights others can only look up on youtube.

Seriously do you only raid because "ermagawd item levelz!1"?
I may be oldschool but in my 8 years of active raiding gear was more treated as a tool (unless pretty, then it was a must have :P ), a means to an end in order to defeat the next challenge instead of the sole motivation to push through the raiding ordeal. The true reward was the feeling of awesome when we as a group managed to kill the big bad that mopped the floor with us before.

[Reilyn]

Well being skilled and being lucky enough to find a competent & stable static raid group already rewards you: you get to see awesome bossfights others can only look up on youtube.

Seriously do you only raid because "ermagawd item levelz!1"?

Ironically, I don't.

I chose to speak about the material rewards because after 8 years of MMOs, regardless of my drive to beat content just for the sake of beating it, you have to admit most people what the shiny stuff above all else. This is why I chose to speak from a perspective I know most players relate to; material rewards over the pure sense of fulfillment.

I may be oldschool but in my 8 years of active raiding gear was more treated as a tool (unless pretty, then it was a must have :P ), a means to an end in order to defeat the next challenge instead of the sole motivation to push through the raiding ordeal.

You and I are the minority in this regard. Especially now when there aren't as much people who bother to take on alexander savage compared to earlier tiers.

With diadem, and relic, I see it as even more reasons for very many people to not pick up raiding. Self-satisfaction alone isn't enough to drive alot of people to raid.

I like the satisfaction of downing content most others can't, and I want to see more people raiding. But the sense of fufillment alone obviously isn't appealing enough for most other players that aren't me and you. Putting some of the best gear outside of raids isn't helping.

[hagare]

You mean the raids that have inferior weapons for multiple jobs, inferior gear to diadem, doesn't give a title, and pretty much has very little to no motivation to get people to participate in them as is when they offer less progress for the effort toward the relic weapon compared to anything else? As if raid participation wasn't already suffering...

you mean the raid that is already past content now?
the raid that rewarded the best gear in its life cycle?
the raid whose gear is only invalidated by future content and not by anything else in the patch it was released in?
when are people gonna stop complaining that future content gear is better than the previous content?

[FeliAiko]

I don't find it amusing. Anyone who directly opposes the original idea of the thread is pretty much saying 'being skilled shouldn't be rewarded more than those who take the easy route'.

That is why it's amusing. A suggestion that does no harm to those that like the existing method - yet is opposed anyway - does well to highlight the mentality of the current playerbase, as you've mentioned. Which is unfortunate really. It's only so long you can lower the bar until even those that like it become jaded and move onto something more engaging.

[Reilyn]

you mean the raid that is already past content now?

I wasn't aware we already have a new raid, and alexander savage was hit with the nerf bat and the echo stick. My bad.

the raid that rewarded the best gear in its life cycle?
the raid whose gear is only invalidated by future content and not by anything else in the patch it was released in?
when are people gonna stop complaining that future content gear is better than the previous content?

1: relic = content? That's funny
2: relic was delayed, and shoulda've been released much earlier anyway. Possibly around the time alexander savage for 'current content' by your standards

The entire basis of your response is formed from alex savage being outdated content, which is wrong, and I shouldn't have to elaborate on that further.

[hagare]

I wasn't aware we already have a new raid, and alexander savage was hit with the nerf bat and the echo stick. My bad.



1: relic = content? That's funny
2: relic was intended for months ago anyway

The entire basis of your response is formed from alex savage being outdated content, which is wrong, and I shouldn't have to elaborate on that further.

what patch was alex? what patch are we in again?
we are right now in a catch up patch. By that alone alex is outdated.
If you want to clear Alex the way it's supposed to, you are not suppose to do it wearing catch up gear.
nerfs? echo? is Coil Savage nerfed or echoed? Is it outdated content?

your entire basis is that alex is current content, which is wrong.
relic IS content. Just because you don't think it is, doesn't make it not content.

[Granyala]

I chose to speak about the material rewards because after 8 years of MMOs, regardless of my drive to beat content just for the sake of beating it, you have to admit most people what the shiny stuff above all else.

With diadem, and relic, I see it as even more reasons for very many people to not pick up raiding. Self-satisfaction alone isn't enough to drive alot of people to raid.

Sad but true, yes. Most are in for the shiny carrot an that'S when friction starts to build within a given raid team when encounters stop going down easily.

Imho the #1 barrier to raiding is the need for scheduled play. That's also what ultimately drove me away from it after 8 years because no matter how fun (or frustrating at times) it can be I want to play according to how much and when I want to play and not be pressed into "you have to be online this evening for 4 hours or bust".
Add to that the mostly uncircumventable(is that even a word?^^) social drama you get from any group with mixed agendas...

No amount of rewards will change that.

But, I wholeheartedly agree that bleeding edge superhard content is entitled to unique and powerful rewards. Imho the old system in ARR worked very well. Raid gear was better, yes but not by an utterly crippling margin like it is in WoW where your character feels like broken trash if you do not raid at least heroic.
Bottable grind content like Diadem (never done it, the concept sounded mindnumbingly boring to me) should NEVER award gear anywhere close to raid level. That is just flat out wrong.

As for the relic: I see no harm in savage raiders being able to double dip and getting theirs faster. After all by the time they get it, they'll probably have access to better raid weapons anyway.

gotta go, read you reply later^^

[FeliAiko]

you mean the raid that is already past content now?
the raid that rewarded the best gear in its life cycle?
the raid whose gear is only invalidated by future content and not by anything else in the patch it was released in?
when are people gonna stop complaining that future content gear is better than the previous content?

Gordias is meant to last until 3.2, not become diminished gear wise by 3.1 (Diadem), an issue Yoshi himself admitted as an decision error. Catch up patches are meant to facilitate those either wanting high level gear (but unable to raid), or those that need further assistance towards clearing the raid. However, it's never meant to actually equal (or even potentially surpass) the raid gear, hence why it was always 5-10 ilvls below.