Yoshi - Players who "Like" Challenges would ALSO like to obtain a Relic Weapon

[Stanelis]

Just because you assume a step will be tedious does not mean the relic will become obsolete. You've kind of contradicted yourself there.

We can do rhetorics all day but I'm not interested (you know very well what I want to say). This has already been discussed during 2.0.

[WinterLuna]

We can do rhetorics all day but I'm not interested (you know very well what I want to say). This has already been discussed during 2.0.

Yet you are just going around in circles with your argument. Your opinion of the relic does not make it "obsolete." If you don't want to do it that's fine, but using opinions as facts isn't validating your argument.

[Stanelis]

Yet you are just going around in circles with your argument. Your opinion of the relic does not make it "obsolete." If you don't want to do it that's fine, but using opinions as facts isn't validating your argument.

When I was talking about the relic being obsolete, I was talking about the specific step. Once it is done and the new step is released, the current step becomes obsolete and you have to start the grind anew.

Also, the fact this is going in circle goes to show the repetitive character of the current implementation of content.

[Vaer]

Why are they not incentivizing the beautiful older content that is fun and interesting and very much dead right now?

SE can't win either way. If they did this people might complain they bought an expansion to grind 2.0 content or something.

[KaitlanKela]

IMO, the relics don't get good until you can customize the stats, but then they start becoming more and more useful compared to the raiding drops.

So, yes, the steps will always be tedious, that's the nature of Relic quests, but the rewards will eventually be worth it. At least from a gaming perspective. If you don't need a super-customizable bleeding-edge weapon by the end of the expac, the relic is not for you and you were not the intended audience. Instead, wait for upgraded tomestone weapon.

SE can't win either way. If they did this people might complain they bought an expansion to grind 2.0 content or something.

I'm not suggesting taking away alex as an option. If they want to grind the 3.0 content incessantly that's their prerogative. Just that if you gave people lots of options, a larger percentage of the audience would be happy. Eventually the only ones complaining would have nothing meaningful to say but 'the grind is too long'. To which SE should (rightfully) say, deal with it.

I agree 100% with the concept that people will always complain, lol. If people wanted their relic to be in interesting quest with tons of dev attention and new content, it would be a MSQ DROP. There's not enough resources to essentially make a side-quest with the attention to detail of the MSQ for the relic, there's just not. Relics are grindy and repetitive. The people complaining about that...meh? Haters gonna hate, I guess.

[JakzChurchill]

I agree with Op completely, the appeal of this weapon isn't that it's "easier to get", it's that it evolves with you over time. My biggest gripe is that it brought nothing new to the table in terms of weapon mechanics and only rehashed old content with a very limited story and a lack of innovative ideas.

My minor gripe is the grind, I saw a post that said 'if you do your roulette's, daillies and a few alex normal runs every day it would take 23ish days... so what about a player of my stance who has time for 3-4 roulettes a week, as most as most of the time I get on to raid for a few hours then it's time for bed. I have access to one beast tribe for daillies which I don't have time to do daily and I don't have the willpower to fall back on Alex normal in the event I get some free time. That then makes it take 4x - 5x as long. I'm basically locked out of being up to date in time for 3.25 because I can't dedicate all my free time to this weapon. This is then an issue for the dev team as the more people who just can't keep up means the less people who will do the next phase, so less effort will be put into it making more people fall off... it's just going to grind itself into the floor for the sake of not looking at the bigger picture.

Honestly why can't this be a weapon for everyone, it has a very wide appeal in what it brings to the table, as soon as it adds the ability to change the stats it will almost be a requirement for raiders. To me they should have added Bismark EX, Ravana EX and KOR Ex as options with higher weights, allow statics to suggest let's not beat our head against savage tonight, instead let's farm rav ex for relic, or try and get KOR on farm as it gives the most tokens. Although it wouldn't fix all the issues it would at least make it feel like an achievable goal for the majority of the playerbase.

And no I don't want the weapon NOW but I would like to think I could achieve it before the next update to the questline, which atm I don't feel is possible because it was weighted to far on the time sink and didn't allow options for people who would prefer to gain it through higher difficulty content at a faster rate, and god forbid they make bis ex tokens relevant for the first time.

[Kaurie]

That's a different argument altogether to the one I was responding to. I was responding to the request for new content, not the grind aspect. Also, the relic won't become obsolete soon. It will be upgraded, like the previous relic.

Also, adding new content doesn't mean it's going to please everyone either. Just because they add a new trial or dungeon doesn't mean it's going to be a good one everyone is satisfied with. Plus they will add new content, it just wasn't in this patch.

The relic will be obsolete from at least 3.2 to 3.25, as Yoshi mentioned the next stage is in 3.25 (assuming it is not delayed).


My 2 Cents from the Letter on 3.1 and How to Address it Moving Forward - copy pasted this post from Reddit where I posted it a few mins ago

Gotta say, I appreciate the Savage and Diadem stuff, but Anima part is pretty disappointing. I don't really feel he understood the main complaint of the Anima quest.

Yes, some people were asking for more challenging content to be an option, but that is just it, they wanted it as another option - not a gate.

More importantly, people wanted the grind to be more interesting and add something new to the game. We get that it's supposed to be long.

I think probably most importantly is the concern of relevancy. He has flat out now said that the relic will be ousted by the new tomestones weapon in 3.2, and that the relic won't catch up until 3.25? He then added that the savage weapon will likely be even higher than the tomestones weapon. I am already 35% done to 210 now, so I'll just finish it, but this is very disappointing.

I'm not suggesting taking away alex as an option. If they want to grind the 3.0 content incessantly that's their prerogative. Just that if you gave people lots of options, a larger percentage of the audience would be happy. Eventually the only ones complaining would have nothing meaningful to say but 'the grind is too long'. To which SE should (rightfully) say, deal with it.

Hey there

I think you hit the nail on the head here. The easiest way to prevent burn out on the grind is having lots of options. Not only does that appeal to more players who prefer different content, it allows players to rotate what they are doing and do different things. They sort-of did this, and so far I am not burnt out as I have been swapping between roulettes, hunts and alex. That said, I think more options is always better, and I would like to have seen the ability to use GC's, Wolf Marks (even though I hate PvP) etc.

I also am fairly disappointed about his note on the crafting aspect. I would much rather a situation where crafting pieces is way you can cut down on the time you need or something, and be able to choose to get say 4-8 more of each Unidentifiable piece which can be used to trade in for the crafting materials at a vendor or something. [sorry for the horrible run-on sentence here]

[Eidolon]

Why could the Relic not take on both forms of Midcore as well as Grindy content?

Let's take our current Phase 3 for example.
What if, you could grind Thordan, Ravana, and Bismark-EX. Each of which gives you 1 token per run (Not the Precision style, but the ACTUAL drops.)

Players would then have even more choices of content to run:

EX's for fastest grind
Alexander for a casual "Lengthier" grind
Beastmen for the casual-est "Longest" grind.

[ScarletDawn]

The relic will be obsolete from at least 3.2 to 3.25, as Yoshi mentioned the next stage is in 3.25 (assuming it is not delayed).

And that is the problem, the relic is made obsolete instantly by a new patch, sure 3.2 wont be till maybe feb/march next year so that is 1 month where the relic is useful after that month of causal grind, until an easy peasy higher much better weapon in the form of tomes comes along and makes it useless....

The grind is not justified when a weapon that can be gotten in under 2 weeks will be much better, much easier to obtain and less work...

[Reilyn]

I will never understand you people so adamantly against providing a choice, an option to reward people who do harder content with more progress to their relic.

Crap excuses like

There are already enough ways to obtain the relic.

Aren't a good enough reason as to why not.

Saying 'go do alex savage if you wanted to be rewarded for skill' doesn't fly either when the weapon reward for doing it isn't as good as relic for several jobs for doing content you can't sleep through (plus it doesn't even give you a title), and when diadem rewards bis for jobs depending on luck (my SCH robe from diadem with 86 crit, 94 piety, and 25 det is better than what I can get from a4s. I've passed the healing robe to our SMN)


Raid participation in this patch cycle is low anyway. This would help remedy this known problem. Why not have that optional incentive to get better at the game make people want to do at least thordan ex, or go into savage if it could mean they could get a relic faster?

Aside from the poorly designed alexander encounters, between the current relic chain, and diadem (eg: bis SCH robe is mistbreak alb with crit on it. Not a4s robe, or not even upgraded eso), they are further killing alot of motivation for people to do the game's hardest content.

We could have a larger pool of people who actually want to raid again if something as difficult as thordan ex, and a1s at least gave a sizable amount of progress through their 3rd step. Lack of participation is a major problem they know they have, and they are not helping it by rewarding people who do raid less than those who don't in too many cases. The OP's suggestion would actually help fix that.




For the naysayers, I invite you to post what actual harm a change like this would have on the game. I've just provided methods in which this change can help the game, and how the current form hurts the game that isn't 'waa I can't get relic fast enough'.

The only thing I've seen so far from naysayers are people making excuses for SE like the aforementioned quote without even bringing a single decent argument as to how the OP's idea is possibly bad for the game.