you guys went overboard with this new relic

[zosia]

Fixed that for ya. Because with that, you hit the nail on the head. If the relic truly was a legendary weapon, incoroporating the different parts of the game into actually obtaining it would be perfectly alright. But the sad fact is - it's only a legendary weapon when it comes to lore. Step away fromthat and what you have is something akin to an antique piece of something on an auction for example: sure, you can go and get it, you can spend an incredible amount of money to get it, but it won't be of any use other than looking pretty. And once you have it, you'll be spending even more money on it to keep it clean and maintained and generally to prevent it from falling apart. That's what the relic rather is. When at the same time, you can go down to the little store on the corner and buy a current, actually working version of the same item, for much cheaper, that you can actually use. That's what the Eso weapon is.

Just think about it: Esoterics were added in patch 3.05, that was July 21, five months ago. From then on, basically everyone could have their Antiquated weapon on August 4 - two weeks of capping Esoterics only by running Expert just once a day, and then doing it again on the 4th and running something that awarded....a measly 15 tomes? I think expert gives 75, and the weapons cost 990, but I'm not completely sure; the overall figure was this, anyway.
Now it's throwing yourself against RNG in farming FATEs (something that was already hated with the actual atma back then) - you either get the 18 crystals in a day or two, like a friend of mine was lucky to, or you farm for two days and only have 2 crystals to show for it...... (Yeah there is the Zeta, which not everyone has, and even if someone does, they might not want to lose the actual item, maybe because the customised stats are lost for example, replica for glamour notwithstanding.) And then you have to go through 10 dungeons, all of which you can no doubt do blindfolded by now, for all the wrong reasons. And this gets you on par with an essential "one dungeon a day for two weeks" alternative. Then comes the actual grind, and let's not even delve into the details of that, what's important is that it's incredibly mind-numbing in every sense of the word, only to get you an i210 weapon. Something a small group already has. Something that will be, at best, nothing special by the time most people even get close to finish, probably, because by that time we'll have the Eso upgrade drop in VA - another dungeon that's been a faceroll since about the day after its launch.

So much for the "legendary" status of the Anima Weapon. And because of this, it should not have an arbitrary additional piece forced into its obtaining, only for "crafter relevancy" to get another band-aid. But hey, why not, as Warlyx hinted at it: let's have the next top-level DoL/DoH tool require Alex Savage. It's "legendary", after all, is it not? So why should it skip on including different parts of the game in its questline?...

Please spare me the argument about relevance of the relic not being "legendary" because of the ilv. I cleared a4s and have to suffer the proliferation of 210 weapons, I know more than most people that play this game what it feels like when your well spent effort buys you a diminished reward.

people should focus less on the ilvl and more about the story, journey, and sense of accomplishment associated with the relic! It's what the casual crowd loves telling raiders! /sniker

I am fine with all the suggestion of DoL and DoH getting unique items/gear/recipes from savage. Try a different slippery slope because I love those ideas. Also, this is what the casual crowd wanted, a relic that was not associated with any difficult fight. SE has to put in challenges with the relic somehow. If you feel so strongly about only having to do PvE fights to get your relic and not involving any other aspect of the game, maybe you should be asking SE to use gating mechanics such as ex primals rather than months long grinds.

[BreathlessTao]

please spare me the argument about relevance of the relic being "legendary". I cleared a4s and have to suffer the proliferation of 210 weapons, I know more than most people that play this game what it feels like when your well spent effort buys you a diminished reward.

people should focus less on the ilvl and more about the story, journey, and sense of accomplishment associated with the relic! It's what the casual crowd loves telling raiders! /sniker

I am fine with all the suggestion of DoL and DoH getting unique items/gear/recipes from savage. Try a different slippery slope because I love those ideas. Also, this is what the casual crowd wanted, a relic that was not associated with any difficult fight. SE has to put in challenges with the relic somehow. If you feel so strongly about only having to do PvE fights to get your relic and not involving any other aspect of the game, maybe you should be asking SE to use gating mechanics such as ex primals rather than months long grinds.

Oh, so you really are one of those "doesn't affect me so I don't care" people; sure I'll spare you the argument because it doesn't fit your opinion. I mean your achievements are conveniently hidden, so I can't tell when you downed A4S (congrats btw!), but I doubt you've had just a week of enjoying your special i210, as it's probably gonna be the case with most people working on the Anima Weapon. All the more so because Alex Savage, at this specific point in time, is still the only way to obtain that, because the new relic has not been out for a week and it is an incredibly time-consuming undertaking. (As I pointed out before, I do believe one starting Alex Savage just now, still has more chance of obtaining the i210 weapon from there sooner than the relic.) All in all, idk what "proliferation of 210 weapons" you are on about at all, because it's not even happening yet??
And what a surprise, you're also an all-60 crafter and gatherer! (Congrats on that too btw!) Of course you must love the idea of specific crafting items being added to something they have nothing to do with.

People should focus less on the ilevel, but what can we do when the devs themselves keep giving us much more of the ilevel (and much faster!) to focus on, than anything else?

As for the "casual" element, I knew I should have included this in my previous post.
What seems to be getting forgotten is the fact that "casual" has two axes to it: difficulty and duration.
Currently, Alex Savage is not friendly on either of those axes, it's both hard and time-consuming (learning it all and getting a group to a point where they can do it without hiccups). We now got Anima, which is friendly on the difficulty scale, as it is piss-easy to do, but not at all any better than Savage when it comes to duration. Nothing about that is "casual", if you actually consider doing it in a "casual" way, the "proliferation of 210 weapons" will come even later than it could, at least from this one faucet.
Whereas at the same time the original 2.0 relic didn't take much time, but it did offer a fair challenge - this setup is what we haven't had... ever since then. This is what has been missing for far too long, this type of content, practically all over the game. The Anima Weapon is just the current piece of "content" that brings it to the surface.
You seem to throw around the term "casual" very easily, when it's obvious you yourself aren't one. By your own logic then - please stop stirring the pot just for the sake of stirring it, without adding anything relevant or constructive to it.

[zosia]

Oh, so you really are one of those "doesn't affect me so I don't care" people; sure I'll spare you the argument because it doesn't fit your opinion. I mean your achievements are conveniently hidden, so I can't tell when you downed A4S (congrats btw!), but I doubt you've had just a week of enjoying your special i210, as it's probably gonna be the case with most people working on the Anima Weapon. All the more so because Alex Savage, at this specific point in time, is still the only way to obtain that, because the new relic has not been out for a week and it is an incredibly time-consuming undertaking. (As I pointed out before, I do believe one starting Alex Savage just now, still has more chance of obtaining the i210 weapon from there sooner than the relic.) All in all, idk what "proliferation of 210 weapons" you are on about at all, because it's not even happening yet??
And what a surprise, you're also an all-60 crafter and gatherer! (Congrats on that too btw!) Of course you must love the idea of specific crafting items being added to something they have nothing to do with.

People should focus less on the ilevel, but what can we do when the devs themselves keep giving us much more of the ilevel (and much faster!) to focus on, than anything else?

As for the "casual" element, I knew I should have included this in my previous post.
What seems to be getting forgotten is the fact that "casual" has two axes to it: difficulty and duration.
Currently, Alex Savage is not friendly on either of those axes, it's both hard and time-consuming (learning it all and getting a group to a point where they can do it without hiccups). We now got Anima, which is friendly on the difficulty scale, as it is piss-easy to do, but not at all any better than Savage when it comes to duration. Nothing about that is "casual", if you actually consider doing it in a "casual" way, the "proliferation of 210 weapons" will come even later than it could, at least from this one faucet.
Whereas at the same time the original 2.0 relic didn't take much time, but it did offer a fair challenge - this setup is what we haven't had... ever since then. This is what has been missing for far too long, this type of content, practically all over the game. The Anima Weapon is just the current piece of "content" that brings it to the surface.
You seem to throw around the term "casual" very easily, when it's obvious you yourself aren't one. By your own logic then - please stop stirring the pot just for the sake of stirring it, without adding anything relevant or constructive to it.

First, read my comment

Second, try again. I am working on my relic as we speak. I am just not going to go nuts over getting it any time soon. I am perfectly happy getting my relic in a month and a half just casually doing beast men dailies, maps, and roulettes.

Third, it took me about two months of progression to get a4s down, why shouldn't take about two months for the relic quest chain? There needs to be long term goals for casual and hardcore players alike. Hardcore players will finish their relics in a few weeks where casual players will take a few months. No one, casual or hardcore, should be getting fast and easy 210 weapons.

Forth, this is what the casual players wanted, a raid equivocal weapon without any raid fights. They made their beds, they can lie in em. I will get my relic because I am not obsessed with obtain it for no good reason. People should just enjoy the sense of accomplishment that they did something! They managed to grind out a relic and should feel accomplished, that is the real end game reward right?

Lastly, I am doing the relic so I feel quite happy and content weighing in on the subject. These are the burdens many of you ask raiders to bare. You tell us that our gear and weapons should not be our source of satisfaction or rewards for clearing savage; yet, you guys are so focused on the quality of your own rewards. The hypocrisy is titillating! It's simply brilliant. This has been my favorite relic yet!

[Reilyn]

I am fine with all the suggestion of DoL and DoH getting unique items/gear/recipes from savage.

Get your flame shields ready for that one.

If you feel so strongly about only having to do PvE fights to get your relic and not involving any other aspect of the game, maybe you should be asking SE to use gating mechanics such as ex primals rather than months long grinds.

You mean exactly what I want? Yes please!

Being a SCH that downed a4s to see my bis weapon (the only one of the 3, or 4 if you want to count thordan's, that has crit on it) come from mind-numbing chores of all things is a kick in the teeth.

-I'm all for putting HUGE precision item rewards behind savage alexander fights. By huge I mean 100 of each precision piece for beating a1s, and another 100 of each for beating a2s.
-There should also be another trade-in item from all 3 HW EX primals (yes killing all 3 would be manditory), maybe... twice each that would net the player all the unidentifiable items they need in some way.

There. I just came up with a very simple bandaid that accomplishes the following:

-people who are capable of doing the actual content are on the fast track to their relic (you know! like 2.0!)
-still leaves the option of grinding everything else for those who either don't want to, or incapable of doing the actual content

I would've liked to pitch this idea in a thread of its own, but anywhere there's no mud-slinging is fine.

I want to be rewarded for climbing a skill wall. For clearing a4s, I get my pick of weapons with less than ideal secondary stats (because no crit for SCH eso, gordian, and thordan weapons is okay SE?!), a lame mount that sounds like a bunch of moving trashcans, and no title. Meanwhile, I'm being told to do chores to get a weapon better than all of the above...?

[Zojha]

These are the burdens many of you ask raiders to bare. You tell us that our gear and weapons should not be our source of satisfaction or rewards for clearing savage; yet, you guys are so focused on the quality of your own rewards. The hypocrisy is titillating!

Person A says X. Person B says Y. Y is not in line with what A said prior, thus B is a hypocrite.

Uhm...yeah. Not gonna bother arguing here.

[Reilyn]

If you feel so strongly about only having to do PvE fights to get your relic and not involving any other aspect of the game, maybe you should be asking SE to use gating mechanics such as ex primals rather than months long grinds.

Whereas at the same time the original 2.0 relic didn't take much time, but it did offer a fair challenge - this setup is what we haven't had... ever since then. This is what has been missing for far too long, this type of content, practically all over the game

-I'm all for putting HUGE precision item rewards behind savage alexander fights. By huge I mean 100 of each precision piece for beating a1s, and another 100 of each for beating a2s.
-There should also be another trade-in item from all 3 HW EX primals (yes killing all 3 would be manditory), maybe... twice each that would net the player all the unidentifiable items they need in some way.

There. I just came up with a very simple bandaid that accomplishes the following:

-people who are capable of doing the actual content are on the fast track to their relic (you know! like 2.0!)
-still leaves the option of grinding everything else for those who either don't want to, or incapable of doing the actual content

Anyone else realize we all want the same thing?

[ToniRomo]

The first two steps were fine. I'd improve step 3:

-Add a few more options. PVP marks, grand company seal, etc. It would be nice if whatever you choose to do slowly worked towards completing this step since it is such a big step. That might also help improve PVP queue times.
-Get rid of the crafting stuff, or tone it down a lot. This stuff is expensive and I don't craft. My FC is full of crafters so I can probably just ask them for help, but for a lot of people this step is basically just handing over a ton of gil and nothing else.
-Since the weapon is not that impressive and we are getting relics very late it might have made sense to tone this down a bit. 12 of each of the 4 items may have made more sense. I am afraid I won't be able to complete this prior to the next patch and my relic will always be behind in power compared to loot weapons I can get.

[FeliAiko]

If this had dropped in 3.1 at the latest, then I imagine step 3 (as lazy and unimaginative as it is), would've been more bearable to players. Could've tied a portion of the quest into Diadem more to aid that particular content. I also don't think the specialist stuff should've been HQ either.

[Whiteprincess]

I still consider crystals to be a myth till I get my 1st one from all the grinding ive been doing from day one. /cry all my friends said its just bad rng. Ppl here say its fun to do the same old thing over and over. Hmmm im still deciding what to do....

[Nekodar]

While first two steps are ok, there are several problems here...
1) It's awfully late in the patch cycle to introduce this considering there's essentially nothing new about the quests.
2) The crafting part is way overtuned. If it's going to be 1-star specialist, at least let it be enough with normal quality. hq 1+ star specialist recipes would make sense for CRAFTER relics, but it seriously don't make sense now. It's not even close to being reasonable compared to the other parts of the quests.
3) There's nothing new to the quests... It's a mix of what we had in the 2.x relic.