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  1. #1
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    I wouldn't say that the stats are what they are right now through some sort of cosmic purpose. The fact of the matter is that there were very few spreads to put on this relic in the first place. Take a look:

    PLD Has

    Gordian - Crit/Det
    Eso - Det/Parry

    DRK Has

    Gordian - Det/Parry
    Eso - Crit/SS

    WAR Has

    Gordian - Det/SS
    Eso - Crit/Parry

    Pre Relic available weapons for every tank are one weapon with Parry and one without. Judging from the relics, it looks like they prefer to leave just one weapon having Parry. The Relics have the stats they have simply because SE didn't want to implement two weapons with the exact same stats. PLD could only be Crit/SS or Det/SS. DRK could only be Crit/Det or Det/SS. WAR could only be Crit/Det or Crit/SS. So they gave each of them what would be best for damage from those. Paladins win out with Crit because they attack often enough for rates to normalize quickly. Warriors and Dark Knights get Crit/Det because that's still just the best. All of the DPS who were shafted by relic choices got whacked because there was only a single choice of stat spread on the relic: whichever one the Gordian or Eso weapon didn't have.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player Februs's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,927
    Character
    Februs Harrow
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Take a look ... Pre Relic available weapons for every tank are one weapon with Parry and one without. Judging from the relics, it looks like they prefer to leave just one weapon having Parry. The Relics have the stats they have simply because SE didn't want to implement two weapons with the exact same stats.
    You missed the Thordan Weapons!

    Seriously though, the Sword of the Heavens also has a Crit/Det mix (albeit at a slightly lower value), so SE is already operating with duplicate stats across different end game weapons. There is a 5 item level difference, but it's not really a huge difference all things considered. Further, that Det/Crit mix does, in my opinion, put the ilvl 205 Sword of the Heavens above the ilvl 210 Relic. It's nice that the auto-attacks advantage Pld Dps when it comes to Crit. I don't really think it is the "best" dps option for Pld. Frequency in auto attacks is nice, but the drop in attack power nerfs the baseline. Also, I don't think putting faith in RNGsus for Dps (especially on the job that already lags behind it's peers) is not ideal if you compare it to a consistent increase in output. Plus, with the increase in SS, a Pld is likely to run dry faster, nerfing their Dps straight down to 0 when they have nothing left (which, admittedly, is only really a problem in fights like A4, where you have almost 100% uptime as MT) Given the alternative, it just seems like a strange choice to me.

    As you said, they could have just as easily gone DET/SS (if they absolutely had to stick with SS) for a more consistent Dps output. The reason I find it an odd choice is because this seems to be what Pld's are designed for. They lack of any notable burst skills like Fell Cleave/IB or Carve and Spit/Reprisal... That is, unless they plan on buffing Spirits within sometime in the near future, but I hardly expect anything like this in the future considering they crippled Shield Swipe when they took it off the GCD (it would seem that SE does not want Pld Dps anywhere but down, which is fine... if they would just address that enmity issue...). That being said, I suppose it does vary depending on how the stats scale. If Crit has a higher scaling than Det, than it might make a notable difference. I'm willing to give it a test run or two, but given the overall dip in Pld stats when actually equipping the weapon I'm not expecting it to be all that different (if not outright worse) than the Antiquated weapon.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Februs View Post
    You missed the Thordan Weapons!
    It is true that I did not regard the Thordan Weapons, but that is because I was strictly speaking of Item Level 210 weapons. If we narrow things down to that then you will find that no job has duplicate stat spreads.

    That aside, Crit does in fact weigh higher than Det for Paladins. When it comes to the Sword, highest to lowest damage order is Gordian(Crit/Det) -> Relic(Crit/SS) -> Esoteric(Det/Parry).
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Galactimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    638
    Character
    Clive Hawkins
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Februs View Post
    There is a 5 item level difference, but it's not really a huge difference all things considered. Further, that Det/Crit mix does, in my opinion, put the ilvl 205 Sword of the Heavens above the ilvl 210 Relic.
    Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't the +1 Weapon Damage, +3 Str, +2 Crit, and +73 Skill Speed you get from the i210 Relic superior than the +66 Det you get from Thordan?
    (1)
    Last edited by Galactimus; 12-26-2015 at 03:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Player Februs's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    Ul'dah
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    1,927
    Character
    Februs Harrow
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Galactimus View Post
    Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't the +1 Weapon Damage, +3 Str, +2 Crit, and +73 Skill Speed you get from the i210 Relic superior than the +66 Det you get from Thordan?
    In regards to +1 Weapon dmg, +3 Str, and +2 Crit, it's difficult to say. After 3.0 they changed the way Det scales with Str. I'm not personally aware of the new numbers, so it's hard for me to say one way or another how the Det on the Thordan weapons compare to the Relic. I've been told that Crit, technically, scales better for Pld's, but it's still an RnG based Stat that accounts (so I've been told) for roughly 5% chance of critical dmg at base. With good scaling, Crit provides a decent Dps increase, but I don't think it will be by a huge difference, especially given Pld's Dps kit. Regardless, no one has shown any solid data for it yet. Honestly though, it's not the Str and Crit that I'm concerned with (or why I prefer the Thordan Ex weapon). The main problem that I have with it is the +73 increase in Skill Speed.

    Unfortunately, Pld's have absolutely no means of restoring Tp besides simply not attacking. They can buy themselves some time with Clemency and Flash casts, but for each cast of those two moves they are effectively dealing 0 Dmg. In fights with 100% (or near enough to 100%) up-time on the boss, a Pld can burn their Tp to empty in roughly 3 minutes, give or take a minute. Increasing Skill Speed only makes this easier, and therefore worse. Once a Pld's Tp is empty, they can do nothing but use attacks as they proc (which is a delayed response and therefore a decrease in Dps/enmity), or spam Flash/Clemency to try to maintain enmity while their Tp bar slowly recharges (which is also a decrease in Dps). You can sabotage your own Skill Speed by simply not executing attacks at the speed at which they become available, but if you do that then what's the point of having the extra Skill Speed? It does nothing for your Auto-attack either, so there's no benefit even when running in the OT position and utilizing SwO. As things are, increasing Skill Speed on any weapon for Pld's only makes one of the most glaring flaws with the Pld kit worse. So, it's not preferable to practically any other stat
    (0)
    Last edited by Februs; 12-26-2015 at 06:02 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    MaethusXion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    905
    Character
    Makoto Edakumi
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    snip
    Just for completions sake, because PLD has to have a shield...

    Gordian Blade - Crit/Det
    Gordian Shield - Parry/SS

    Hauteclaire(Eso) - Parry/Det
    Prytwen(Eso) - Crit/SS

    Almace(Relic3.0) - Crit/SS
    Ancile(Relic3.0) - Parry/Det

    Just looking at those, I've made the guess that, at i210:
    Gordian Blade >= Almace > Hauteclaire
    Prytwen > Ancile >= Gordian Shield

    Obviously SS v Det can be tossed either way, but what I lurk and read on the forums pretty much the view would be the above.
    (1)

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