When will SE realize this endless vertical progression is going nowhere?

[Urthdigger]

There's an alternative to horizontal too. Simply, add more content and focus on the content design.

Problem is, modern MMOs have trouble thinking outside of "raid" and with how raid design has been conceptualized, there's not really much that can be done except trying to find a yet undone twist to mechanics or combine them in some way.

So, add new content, but don't add any gear better than the old stuff? Wow, players will just be lining up to run that

[Zumi]

Making an entire expansion with gear worse then your previous expansions just doesn't work see WoTG this was a period of time where a lot of people quit FFXI.

[starLivitation]

I am afraid we are talking to deaf ears. i mean developers direction for this game is very clear.

1. Graphics and music, art work and gear for glamour : i do like this, but alone is not enough.
2. 4 raid bosses for progression every 6 month if we are lucky.
3. Item level vertical progression
4. story line bosses
5. crafting, well it's mostly dead here it just mostly crafters making raid food or pots, and crafters selling to crafter or some glamour.

it seems if they want to add anything else, they have to hire talent and for this ffxiv progject i think the project is over, its mostly small additions to story here and there. no new ideas will come this is it, we have the game, and its not gona get better.

[Dyvid]

What is horizontal progression? This term is thrown around all the time like a cure all, with no details on what it would include.

I'll try and field this question with job specific materia idea. Obviously you grind to get them but instead of simply raising base stats from one ilvl to the next, you add augmented effects to abilities.

I'm a SMN so I'll use that as an example:
Miasma II Materia- extend duration of Miasma II by 10 secs.
Painflare Materia - 10% chance of increase Bio, Bio II, and Miasma duration by 5 seconds
Garuda Shockwave - Removes pushback effect of Shockwave and extends damage to all nearby enemies
Ifrit Flaming Crush - Add 5s damage over time effect, potency 15.
Tri-Disaster - 5% chance to add one Aetherflow after use.

That's is what many consider Horizontal Progress. An expansion of the job across current equipment ilvl rather than replacing it with higher ilvl gear. Ilvl and new item are good every once and a while but to be bombarded with it every patch is tiring many people out.

[Zumi]

I'll try and field this question with job specific materia idea. Obviously you grind to get them but instead of simply raising base stats from one ilvl to the next, you add augmented effects to abilities.

I'm a SMN so I'll use that as an example:
Miasma II Materia- extend duration of Miasma II by 10 secs.
Painflare Materia - 10% chance of increase Bio, Bio II, and Miasma duration by 5 seconds
Garuda Shockwave - Removes pushback effect of Shockwave and extends damage to all nearby enemies
Ifrit Flaming Crush - Add 5s damage over time effect, potency 15.
Tri-Disaster - 5% chance to add one Aetherflow after use.

That's is what many consider Horizontal Progress. An expansion of the job across current equipment ilvl rather than replacing it with higher ilvl gear. Ilvl and new item are good every once and a while but to be bombarded with it every patch is tiring many people out.

This only worked in FFXI because you could swap gear and have a macro which had gear swaps for every ability. If you have choices between different pieces of gear that effect abilities by 5-10% you can't swap gear, 1 piece will be mathematically best easily. With math people would be like get this piece it has the highest dps increase the rest of the gear is trash. Since you can't swap out gear to use more then one piece in a slot.

[Valoiz]

"I'm one of those suckers who basically plays just his MMO... and this often feels like a bad relationship I just can't leave"

They have been using the same forumla for 2 years now, with hardly any attempt at branching out into something new.

[Catwho]

It worked well in XI because there was always a piece of amazing gear that was difficult to get if you had bad luck. But the piece was so good that it was worth going 1/24 to get it. And after you got it, you were stoked and felt fullfilled. People played many jobs in XI. It was rare to find someone that only played one job.

Also, it could take a year, maybe more, to complete your best sets of gear for just one job. And it was a satisfying accomplishment.

I think you touched on something with that - my biggest accomplishment was Gjallarhorn, of course, but I also played another 5-6 jobs pretty regularly. My second favorite acquisition in XI was a fairly rare off hand dagger that had "additional effect:blink." Damage-wise, it was bad, but that's why it was the off hand. Combine it with a much better main hand, go as THF/DNC, and the thief job became a one Taru solo machine. But when I wasn't soloing? Useless. Swap that back out for +1 Treasure Hunter instead.

"Best in slot" didn't exist in XI except for some incredibly rare, incredibly valuable pieces. Everything was "best in slot for X." Best in slot for resting, best in slot for weapon skill, best in slot for an enfeeble, best in slot for building TP, best in slot for turtle tanking, best in slot for running away from something eating your face, and so on. The horizontal grind worked in XI because you needed 3-4 different gear pieces for each slot.

It's the same in XIV, except replace "X" with "a short period of time." Anything in XIV is "best in slot for six months" at most.

[Ladon]

Vertical progression isn't inherently bad, but the design FF14 follows is just completely wrong.

FF14 uses multiple path vertical progession which simply does not work and is becoming very apparent as we get deeper into the lifecycle of the game.

Good vertical progession requires that all players are put on the same path but FF doesn't do this. So what we have a game full of redundant and pointless content and gear and when it comes time to move the vertical bar up, it invalidates all previous paths. Basically they are killing content at a much higher rate than they are able to make it now.

[Risvertasashi]

So, add new content, but don't add any gear better than the old stuff? Wow, players will just be lining up to run that

And thus we circle back to my first post.

When will players tire of vertical progression?

[Gardes]

The game's current structure is the result these people's support for vertical progression. All you have to do is ask them if they think this game is currently in a great state and trending up. If they answer yes, then you move on. Not only are they not worth convincing, they probably can't be.

Of course, that's just the players. The one that matters whether you have their ear or not is SE. For my money's worth, SE is not going to change this so either you get comfortable with the ride or get off.