Primal Dalamud?

[Enkidoh]

Pardon me, but didn't Ysayle prove that a cult of similar numbers can summon a primal?

Technically she didn't form the heretics though in so much as just came in and gave them a leader to get behind, as it appears the heretics have been around since... well, since Ishgard's founding. Also Shiva was

created from Ysayle's own misguided beliefs and desires based on the few snippets of Hraesvelgr's memory of the real Shiva she glimpsed through the Echo - all she had to do was then use the heretics' hatred for Ishgard and how Shiva was reviled by the Church of Halone.

Incidentally, we don't actually know how Ysayle came into the knowledge of summoning - but Ascian influence is the most likely cause.

[Morningstar1337]

Technically she didn't form the heretics though in so much as just came in and gave them a leader to get behind, as it appears the heretics have been around since... well, since Ishgard's founding. Also Shiva was

created from Ysayle's own misguided beliefs and desires based on the few snippets of Hraesvelgr's memory of the real Shiva she glimpsed through the Echo - all she had to do was then use the heretics' hatred for Ishgard and how Shiva was reviled by the Church of Halone.

I see. My point is that a cult is enough to summon a Primal. Ergo if the Lambs wanted to and knew how, they could create a massive ritual of blood and crystals to bring forth Dalamud/Bahamut. But the question remains, would the Voidsent gain anything from this, are would primal metaphysics render them fighting over the summon primal for aether to sustain on?

Also regarding the "they would just see Ascians as yet another voidsent to bargain with/try to control" ,I think if they crossed paths, they might try to use that to advantage. It could be something as simple as the usual paragon act ("I can grant you salvation/the menas to bring forth your deity") or do to them what Thordian did to Lahabrea.

[Lambdafish]

To expand on the original question, I would want to know not if they would summon it, and more if they could summon it. Is this possible within the context of the lore? could some mystery group come along and actually summon the thing?

[Wolfandre]

snip

You bring up good points, and I'll admit that my arguments aren't very strong. They just seem to make the most sense to me.

As for Ysale...

Don't forget that Ysale cheated, as well. She has the Echo and a Crystal of Light, both of which are, as of right now, MacGuffin plot points with seemingly unknown/endless/undisputed power factors. We can't exactly use her superimposing an aether-infused image of Shiva over herself as the standard for the methodology of summoning primals.

[Legion88]

Yes, they could.
They just have to gather enough aether and prayers.

[Kaiser-Ace]

To expand on the original question, I would want to know not if they would summon it, and more if they could summon it. Is this possible within the context of the lore? could some mystery group come along and actually summon the thing?

I think so. Since we now know that Primals are mearly Aetheric constructs that take on the percieved immagen and personality that the summoner has of them then it would be possible to summon almost anything as a primal.

I'm also beginning to wonder if the "worship" is actually a parasite-host relationship with the primal using its followers as a file sorce to sustain its self.

Could explain why they are weaker with fewer followers due to the fact that they could burn up the crystal Aether that tgey were summoned with. Also would explain why living sacrifices would charge them so well. They literally get to eat ALL of a follower's Aether instaed of slowly leaching it.

[Morningstar1337]

I'm also beginning to wonder if the "worship" is actually a parasite-host relationship with the primal using its followers as a file sorce to sustain its self.

Consider how a parasite acts, it finds a host and syphons as much as they can from it. Also note that certain parasites can even control the victim's movements (Void Arc being an in game example, specifically what happened to players that get eaten by Sawtooth), With how tempering works and how compatible it is to the aformentioned boss mechanic (those affected with Sawtooth's parasite status seek out their teammates, and do a small conal AoE to infect them with the parasite, the only difference is that unlike real parasites, or Tempering for that matter, this parasite is temporary)

It could also be seen as akin to a Hive Mine. One Queen, many drones, the drones having no free will. This is masked behind a sense of fervor not unlike certain religious extremists, but the underlying effect is one entity controlling many others. To drive the analogy home, a certain Primal is an actual hive queen (or rather king), with the dissenters being those that somehow gained free will (ironically this makes Ravana among the least likely to temper as his subjects' wills are bound to him already, or because he only has to control the actual hive lord of the Gnath)

No matter how you slice it, The Primals are essentially metaphysical puppetmasters. But they are also parasites in another sense. As their existence drains Hydaelyn of aether, this means that as parasites, both the planet and its inhabitants are their hosts

[Lambdafish]

No matter how you slice it, The Primals are essentially metaphysical puppetmasters. But they are also parasites in another sense. As their existence drains Hydaelyn of aether, this means that as parasites, both the planet and its inhabitants are their hosts

I've always wondered about this, because the game seems to present us with 2 different types of primal (arguably 3 if enkidu counts). We have the puppetmaster primals (ifrit, titan, garuda, leviathan, ramuh, ravana, and bismark) and we have the channelled primals (shiva, thorden, and alexander).

I don't think the game has properly explained the former, with the majority of the explaining being about using crystals to manifest a human or object into a more powerful form, while still retaining the persons original mind. I'd love to know more about the puppetmaster primals, as they have to be more than aetheric constructs of deities as they have sentience and are driven by more than mindless instinct, as seen by ramuh's compassion for peace, and garuda's plan to draw out titan and ifrit back in 2.0.

Could we see more plot revelations about a plane of aetheric creatures (like Ascians I guess) that posed as gods to weak minded beast tribes? Perhaps from a certain "Esper World"?

[Jonnycbad]

If there was a primal Dalamud....


http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ozma

[SundayTrash]

But gilgamesh summoned Enkidu by himself with crate loads of fire crystals.