Primal Dalamud?

[Vejjiegirl]

I have a weird question. If the Lambs of Dalamud were to gather crystals and attempt to Summon Dalamud, Would the End result be a Primal Version of the Lesser Moon? or would it just be another Bahamut?

Its been on the back of my mind for a while, I also wonder why the Ascians didnt target them as well since they were so willing to summon dalamud again.

[Lambdafish]

From my understanding, most likely. As primals are simply aetheric projections called from the (correct me if im wrong) lifestream. Originally I had it wrong in that I thought they had to be living beings that had died and their aether had been sent into the lifestream, but then I remembered that Alexander is a machine given sentience by the goblins.

So yes, a sentient primal version of dalamud could potentially be summoned, but I feel that the amount of aether crystals needed would be far too great for it to ever be possible (Alexander is said to be a huge danger due to the aether that he needs, and he is tiny in comparison).

[Anonymoose]

<...> Would the End result be a Primal Version of the Lesser Moon? or would it just be another Bahamut?

Probably neither, really, though it takes some explaining for that to make sense. Though the game doesn't mention it very often, Eorzea has a ton of religious groups. Each city has entire religious systems around their patron god, which is connected to a larger, vaguer "Faith of the Twelve" that you could group most Eorzeans under. For instance, Ishgard has "faith in the Twelve" but, really, the Enchiridion around Halone is what's important. Ul'dah has "faith in the Twelve" but, really, The Order of Nald'thal is what's important.

In addition to this, there are a ton of cults. Some cults worship the patron gods in their own way; in fact, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn began as a group pretending to be such a cult - calling themselves the Path of the Twelve to blend in as "just another" religious group when in reality Minfilia was gathering and protecting those with the Echo, who were confused and frightened and might face persecution. Some cults have more... unique... visions.

The Lambs of Dalamud rose in 1572 as a doomsday cult - terrified people who just kind of snapped. They took all of the rumors and themes related to the lesser moon that persisted through the ages and combined and twisted them to worship the object of their annihilation, believing that it would cause the moon to spare them. They believed that Dalamud, as the legends stated, was Menphina's loyal hound - and that it turned red because it was bathed in the blood of her enemies. They in turn slaughtered people to please the hound, believing that he would remember their scent and return them from the Seventh Hell to serve him in the seventh and final Umbral Era.

If they summoned their god, it would likely be the Hound itself.

As for why the Ascians never got involved... ehhh, they were doing enough damage on their own.
They already invoked Darkness and birthed voidsent and killed people. It's hard to warp that.

And giving the faithful extraordinary power might be a bad idea when they're mostly garden variety doomsday lunatics.

[Februs]

And giving the faithful extraordinary power might be a bad idea when they're mostly garden variety doomsday lunatics.

I guess it kind of depends on what their end goal is.

The Ascians cause destruction for a purpose (freeing their true god). It is possible that the destruction caused by a falling star is outside of their plans, or perhaps it would fit just fine but isn't viable for some reason (such as the difficulty of summoning an entire moon into existence). Though, as you said, it's more likely that they just don't need to intervene. After all, these people are wreaking havoc already. As far as the Ascians are concerned, why fix what isn't broken?

One interesting question that this does raise for me, though, is, hypothetically, if it were possible to summon an extraterrestrial essence of some kind, such as a moon or maybe Ark, would such summons require a different source of Aether? Or would they still drain Hydaelyn (the planet)? The reason I ask is because:

• 1. I seem to recall reading somewhere (I think in regards to the 12) about some kind of Cosmic Aether. I could be wrong about that, because I don't remember where I read this. If it's true, though, you'd think this would be right up the Ascian's alley, since that would mean draining the Mother Crystal's energy directly... which I imagine would be quite damaging.
  
  And
  
  
• 2. There have been a few scenes that have played out, seemingly, in space. The most recent of which
  shows Elidibus talking to himself with the Warrior of Darkness stepping in from the shadows.

I don't think any of it is relevant to the story, mind you. I highly doubt we'll be making any trips to the moon any time soon (unless it also crashes into the planet, that is), but there are a few characters that seem to have some sort of ties to the cosmos, including Hydaelyn, Midgarsormr, and possibly Zodiark. One thing I could theorize about the above mentioned cutscene is that perhaps it is outside of Hydaelyn's sphere of influence, serving as a good place for Ascians to hide either themselves or things they don't want Haydaelyn to interfere with? Though, it's more than likely that it's nothing more than a cool backdrop for random cutscenes that wouldn't make any better sense anywhere else...

[Haprimac]

They believed that Dalamud, as the legends stated, was Minfilia's loyal hound - and that it turned red because it was bathed in the blood of her enemies.

/snicker
/snort

... Sorry.

[Anonymoose]

/snicker
/snort

Ha! 3am rush-posts ftl. ... I'll, uh... just go ahead... and... fix that. <blatantly not-ninja edit>

Everyone knows Minfilia's loyal hound is the player.

[Wolfandre]

Another thing to remember is that many of the beast tribes already had reasons to oppose the city-states. The Ascians just needed to exploit that in order to create enough strife to convince them to escalate to conflict. The Lambs were already doing that by calling Voidsent, who disrupt and nom aether anyway, which was the goal of having the beast tribes summon the primals.

Also, most, if not all, of the beast tribes had legends about the Paragons (the Ascians). When one shows up and unravels the secrets of manifesting your god, you listen. The same cannot be said for the Lambs, who were just people. If one showed up, they'd just think he was another denizen of the Void to be controlled/made deals with.

I also just don't think there was enough of them. Entire races of beastmen made up the worshipers of their deities, whereas the Lambs probably didn't have any substantial numbers. They probably lack the 'faith/prayer/collective willpower' element of summoning a primal.

[Morningstar1337]

I also just don't think there was enough of them. Entire races of beastmen made up the worshipers of their deities, whereas the Lambs probably didn't have any substantial numbers. They probably lack the 'faith/prayer/collective willpower' element of summoning a primal.

Pardon me, but didn't Ysayle prove that a cult of similar numbers can summon a primal?

[Enkidoh]

Pardon me, but didn't Ysayle prove that a cult of similar numbers can summon a primal?

Technically she didn't form the heretics though in so much as just came in and gave them a leader to get behind, as it appears the heretics have been around since... well, since Ishgard's founding. Also Shiva was

created from Ysayle's own misguided beliefs and desires based on the few snippets of Hraesvelgr's memory of the real Shiva she glimpsed through the Echo - all she had to do was then use the heretics' hatred for Ishgard and how Shiva was reviled by the Church of Halone.

Incidentally, we don't actually know how Ysayle came into the knowledge of summoning - but Ascian influence is the most likely cause.

[Morningstar1337]

Technically she didn't form the heretics though in so much as just came in and gave them a leader to get behind, as it appears the heretics have been around since... well, since Ishgard's founding. Also Shiva was

created from Ysayle's own misguided beliefs and desires based on the few snippets of Hraesvelgr's memory of the real Shiva she glimpsed through the Echo - all she had to do was then use the heretics' hatred for Ishgard and how Shiva was reviled by the Church of Halone.

I see. My point is that a cult is enough to summon a Primal. Ergo if the Lambs wanted to and knew how, they could create a massive ritual of blood and crystals to bring forth Dalamud/Bahamut. But the question remains, would the Voidsent gain anything from this, are would primal metaphysics render them fighting over the summon primal for aether to sustain on?

Also regarding the "they would just see Ascians as yet another voidsent to bargain with/try to control" ,I think if they crossed paths, they might try to use that to advantage. It could be something as simple as the usual paragon act ("I can grant you salvation/the menas to bring forth your deity") or do to them what Thordian did to Lahabrea.