Pretending to dps in dungeons, is this a new fad?

[Laerune]

Are you serious? I hope not, because if you are... I don't want to be harsh but you are bad at your job.

Is she? The game never tells you that being a healer = dps/healer hybrid. She probaly picked a healer class and expected to only heal and lets be honest, majority of us picked the healer classes to heal, the dps is a extra. A extra that did not show up, untill we were geared up and were speed runing dungeons mid 2.0.

I love that we have the option to dps as a healer, I love doing alot of dps on my tanks and I am the dps that casts Eye For Eye and Virus. I believe that using all the abilities that you have to support the group is something everyone should do, but this is how I play and does not mean that it is the correct one.

The way I see it:
Tanks need to keep agro and use defensive skills.
DPS need to do the most damage that they can and use their dps buff skills (many do not use this, why?)
Healers keep everyone alive, raise the dead and make sure the buffs are up.

Aslong players are doing these things, they are doing their job, in my opinion. Everything else is extra. That DPS that uses Virus or Eye For Eye or helps healing when the Healer is having troubles keeping everyone alive is a amazing player. The Tanks that contributes by doing alot of damage, they are amazing players. The Healers that are able to switch between healing and dealing damage, are amazing players.

Bixillarla might not be taking full adventage of her skills, but this does not mean that she is not doing her job. Lets not forget prior to 3.0 not being able to do speed runs meant you as a player were not doing your job. Untill SE comes here and says that Healers NEED to do DPS, I reckon Bixillarla is doing her job correctly.

[Kaurie]

I main a healer and do nothing but heal. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class, I chose a healer to heal and keep people alive not DPS.

Kick me if you want but my role is to keep you alive and that is it.

Hey if you want to be a poor player, that is your own perogative. Don't lecture others on requesting people to be better though.

Is she? The game never tells you that being a healer = dps/healer hybrid. She probaly picked a healer class and expected to only heal and lets be honest, majority of us picked the healer classes to heal, the dps is a extra. A extra that did not show up, untill we were geared up and were speed runing dungeons mid 2.0.

Healers were never told to DPS in the way that Damage Dealers were never told to stand in AoEs. That is, I'm fairly certain both were told this, just not in so many words. In fact, this guy was an Arcanist (DPS class) for the first 30 levels.

I love that we have the option to dps as a healer, I love doing alot of dps on my tanks and I am the dps that casts Eye For Eye and Virus. I believe that using all the abilities that you have to support the group is something everyone should do, but this is how I play and does not mean that it is the correct one.

You're right, it's not necessarily correct. I mean that depends how you define correct. For this guy's situation, Is correct the way that the developers intended? Then yeah it's incorrect. Is correct the way that supports the team the best and results in a better player? Then yeah it's incorrect. If correct is just the way you want to do it and you pay your own sub, then yeah it's correct.

The way I see it:
Tanks need to keep agro and use defensive skills.
DPS need to do the most damage that they can and use their dps buff skills (many do not use this, why?)
Healers keep everyone alive, raise the dead and make sure the buffs are up.

That is the bare bone, but all of the jobs have much more to them and that is what differentiates people who play well and don't. For example, a tank who keeps agro and uses defense mitigation, but faces the bad guy towards the group? => Bad tank. DPS that uses all of their DPS skills and buffs and parses like crazy, but ignroes every mechanic and dies to every AOE? => Bad dps. Healers that keep everyone alive and don't use all of their skills (i.e. DPS) available to help the party? => Bad Healer.

Aslong players are doing these things, they are doing their job, in my opinion. Everything else is extra. That DPS that uses Virus or Eye For Eye or helps healing when the Healer is having troubles keeping everyone alive is a amazing player. The Tanks that contributes by doing alot of damage, they are amazing players. The Healers that are able to switch between healing and dealing damage, are amazing players.

I'll make sure to die to every AoE next time I'm queued with you, as apparently I'll still be doing my job.

Bixillarla might not be taking full adventage of her skills, but this does not mean that she is not doing her job. Lets not forget prior to 3.0 not being able to do speed runs meant you as a player were not doing your job. Untill SE comes here and says that Healers NEED to do DPS, I reckon Bixillarla is doing her job correctly.

No one is saying (s)he is not doing his/her job, they're saying that player is bad.

[VanilleFang]

snip

So if a tank does nothing but hold hate through enmity attacks are they still a good tank? What about a DPS that just uses their strongest abilities without taking advantage of their supportive abilities (Mantra, Second Wind etc.)? A healer who does nothing but heal is a detriment to the party. If you are going to be lazy and stand around when healing isn't need you are a bad healer. FFXIV isn't the same as other MMOs. Yes, it is never stated that a healer HAS to DPS. But you want to be seen as a good healer in this game then you should at least attempt to do so, even if you don't stance dance. I just see it as pure laziness or an unwillingness to learn your role to its fullest.

I picked to be a healer to heal. But learning that we could also DPS between times of healing, to help take the monsters down faster, I saw it as another way to be to support my party. If something is dead it doesn't do damage. Standing around and doing nothing when you don't need to heal is a hindrance on the party. You are not helping them, or yourself.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

The way I see it:
Tanks need to keep agro and use defensive skills.
DPS need to do the most damage that they can and use their dps buff skills (many do not use this, why?)
Healers keep everyone alive, raise the dead and make sure the buffs are up.

Aslong players are doing these things, they are doing their job, in my opinion. Everything else is extra. That DPS that uses Virus or Eye For Eye or helps healing when the Healer is having troubles keeping everyone alive is a amazing player. The Tanks that contributes by doing alot of damage, they are amazing players. The Healers that are able to switch between healing and dealing damage, are amazing players.

Bixillarla might not be taking full adventage of her skills, but this does not mean that she is not doing her job. Lets not forget prior to 3.0 not being able to do speed runs meant you as a player were not doing your job. Untill SE comes here and says that Healers NEED to do DPS, I reckon Bixillarla is doing her job correctly.

Our "job" is to clear content.

People don't run VA just to tank something/heal someone/dps things. We are in there for loot drops and ESO. In order to obtain these items, you must clear content. (pretty simple right???) I would be able to run an entire dungeon usine the combination of shield lob, flash and circle of scorn (for aggro) along with defensive cooldowns and still do my job according to you. Would any one of you believe this is acceptable???

Why does a healer get a free pass for doing nothing for the 10 seconds inbetween cure cast times? (I am disregarding times when mass damage is going out and all you can do is spam heals, those spikes of damage happen, but they do not run for the entire length of a fight)

I am tired of the "it's not my job" argument. It is a self-centered thought and a crutch that too many people hide behind. So you rolled a healer, and your job is to "only" heal. Please let me know when 8 healers clear Titan (or any other content) by only healing.

I am not asking for healers to put up 1k dps - but you can do something.

People seem to lose sight on the fact that there are 3/7/23 other players in the same room with them, and that the content being worked is a TEAM effort.

[Zojha]

Please let me know when 8 healers clear Titan (or any other content) by only healing.

Anyone else facepalming a little at that?

It's a trinity game. There are people whose job is to make sure the bad guy doesn't attack the squishies, there are people whose job is to make the bad guy die and there are people whose job is to keep all the other guys alive.

Those are the so called "roles" you queue up for. You cannot beat content with the entire party only healing and that is exactly why there are tank and DPS slots. If you feel like filling more than one role, that's a commendable effort, but not part of your job. Your job is clearly defined by your role.

And if you don't like that, ask for the trinity to be abolished. Then everyone is responsible for everything.

[Kaurie]

Anyone else facepalming a little at that?

It's a trinity game. There are people whose job is to make sure the bad guy doesn't attack the squishies, there are people whose job is to make the bad guy die and there are people whose job is to keep all the other guys alive.

Those are the so called "roles" you queue up for. You cannot beat content with the entire party only healing and that is exactly why there are tank and DPS slots. If you feel like filling more than one role, that's a commendable effort, but not part of your job. Your job is clearly defined by your role.

And if you don't like that, ask for the trinity to be abolished. Then everyone is responsible for everything.

I face-palmed as much at that comment (for it being a little irrelevant) as much as I did your post.

Your job is defined by your job quest lines and your skills that you're given. In all of the healer quest lines, you're taught to both heal and DPS. One of the first skills that you acquire as a CNJ is Cleric Stance. It's quite clearly thrown in your face that you DPS as well as Heal. Your role is your responsibility, but it does not define your every action.

As I said before, if you want to play poorly, that is your choice. Just don't defend it.

Our 'job' is to have fun. The game gives us dungeons and missions to have fun with. And if you think healing is so easy that they're sitting on their thumbs all day then you try it. And yes, I have tried it. I've tried healing in most pre-Heavensward dungeons, even pre-nerf Pharos, and it's not as easy as you'd like to think. Speaking of pre-nerf Pharos... never beat it as healer. Not once. As Bard I've cleared it repeatedly, but never as healer. It's a tough job without DD'ing, always having to weigh which spell to use (though Scholar has that easier than White Mage), having to bank your time so that you aren't stuck casting one spell when you really need to cast something else. Having to jam the healing cause you needed to move and someone else didn't.

I'm sorry to hear you had problems with healing, it's clearly not for everyone. I have personally healed every dungeon and most raids in this game. I've mostly done this as a SCH, but some as a WHM. The only times in a dungeon when DPSing is difficult are when there are very large pulls - but even then you can swiftcast Holy for aoe stun, throw up Aero III, holy and swap back out of cleric stance to keep healing. If you were to just heal and never DPS in every dungeon, I would wager that you'd spend about 70% of your time not doing anything.


(EDIT I reached my maximum daily posts already?)

Heh, so my job as Ninja is to protect other people? Interesting to say the least. "I" thought I was just there to make things dead. I shall keep that in mind in the future. Maybe I'll try smokescreening the tank so he doesn't come to harm.

All of our jobs are to protect people, we are the Warriors of Light. However, I feel you have vastly over simplified the Ninja quest line.

Adding to my post again (Wish I could just reply, this limit is lame). I'm not really sure why you are so stubborn and set on playing to the worst possible level. I'm also not sure why you are against having an adult conversation on the whole thing. I'll admit, I have no idea what the 50-60 quest line is for Ninja, but each quest line I have done teaches you how to play your job and how to use your new skills. This includes teaching healers both how to heal and how to DPS.

[Zojha]

Your job is defined by your job quest lines and your skills that you're given.

Heh, so my job as Ninja is to protect other people? Interesting to say the least. "I" thought I was just there to make things dead. I shall keep that in mind in the future. Maybe I'll try smokescreening the tank so he doesn't come to harm.

However, I feel you have vastly over simplified the Ninja quest line.

Hey, it's what the entirety of 50-60 revolves around. Tanking is (apparently) integral to my job and from now on, I shall refer to your post whenever someone tells me it's not.

After all, I don't want to be labeled a bad player for ignoring what my class quests taught me.


Now "I" know that this reasoning is ricidulous. I just wonder when you start to question it.

[Gilraen]

Why does a healer get a free pass for doing nothing for the 10 seconds inbetween cure cast times?

Our 'job' is to have fun. The game gives us dungeons and missions to have fun with. And if you think healing is so easy that they're sitting on their thumbs all day then you try it. And yes, I have tried it. I've tried healing in most pre-Heavensward dungeons, even pre-nerf Pharos, and it's not as easy as you'd like to think. Speaking of pre-nerf Pharos... never beat it as healer. Not once. As Bard I've cleared it repeatedly, but never as healer. It's a tough job without DD'ing, always having to weigh which spell to use (though Scholar has that easier than White Mage), having to bank your time so that you aren't stuck casting one spell when you really need to cast something else. Having to jam the healing cause you needed to move and someone else didn't.

Personally, I'm actually more appreciative of a healer patiently waiting to heal over one that's mixing in attack spells. It tends to mean that any damage that pops up will be dealt with immediately. Too often I've seen healers who, in trying to DD, burn through their mp healing because they forgot to dispel Cleric Stance or letting the tank die because they waiting out casting times. This is especially prevalent when tanks are committing the other faux pas of forcing speed runs. I'd rather the healer be focused on healing so that when it's needed it's there and when it's not it's ready and waiting.

[VanilleFang]

snip.

Like everything else healing takes practice... Healing isn't for everyone, just like tanking and playing a damage dealer.

And you're more appreciative of a healer who does nothing when they don't need to heal? And seriously, you are going to use a bad healer trying to DPS as an example? Alright. That seems completely fair. A good healer is better than both things you have mentioned. Healing damage "immediately" isn't always required and a healer should be able to determine when healing is truly needed. Dodging AoEs is everyone's responsibility, and if you aren't doing it it isn't the healers responsibility to correct your mistake. If everyone did what they were supposed to then the healer should have plenty of time to heal the tank and DPS. Outside unavoidable damage DPS can generally be ignored for a bit, or given a HoT.

You have absolutely no idea how a good healer works in FFXIV. That much is clear. If you think a healer standing around is getting their healing "ready" then you clearly don't understand the job. A healer should not be healing a tank just because they lost 5% of their HP. That's a waste of resources and is pure laziness or inexperience. Healers should be able to judge the situation and react, or predict, accordingly. If someone makes a mistake it is not on the healer to rectify it, but they can try to help with quick reactions.

[Rivxkobe]

Snip

This may be from your experience but its a very narrow minded, and frankly, ignorant view of healers. Again, as other's have said, if you are a healer and just standing around doing nothing most of the time or are casting healing spells every 2.5-4 seconds healing probably isn't for you. There is nothing fun bout just standing around waiting for the rest of your team to take damage and kill the enemies, especially when you have tools to make both of these things easier.

And I'm sorry, but using "this healer did this and this healer did that so its better if a healer just waits on hand and foot for when we need them" is a garbage argument. Bad healer's are not an argument against the actual full potential of the job. And I'm sorry that you are more "appreciative" of a healer that does nothing 50%-70% of the time (in most dungeons).

Also just because a tank falls below 50% health, or a healer is casting an attack spell doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing. Besides, I'd first go and blame a Tank for dying in the time it takes for a Healer to get a healing spell off (in reference to this: "letting the tank die because they waiting out casting times") since most spells are all on the GCD, and many are instant, or the healer WAS bad (for a different reason) and should have known better because the tank wasn't geared well enough to take 2-3 hits.

How, anyway, is standing around 'fun' anyway? How is not using your kit to the full potential not fun? Your first point and your many point after that actually contradict eachother. Since, the goal for everyone is to have fun yet you are saying that healers should play this way because... You see what I'm saying?