A3S nerfs incoming

[Saccharin]

Sounds like most journalism these days.

I dont count people that write 'blogs' are journalists; too many idiots that call themselves journalists because they publish their opinion on the internet.

Oh, maybe I'm a journalist now.

The solution isn't to nerf existing content, but to add additional raids that are not quite as punishing.

No, it's not. This game doesn't have the playerbase like WoW has and in my opinion WoW's four difficulties are just too much.

Three bosses every 6 months does not make a raiding game and it never has been a raiding game it's just one of the avenues.

If people can't do savage as it is then those people are not hardcore raiders, 'simples'. The only viable way if SE want more people to raid savage is to make it a little easier, maybe to the level coil was before the nerfs.

But hey there is alex normal if savage is too hard.

Not all content needs to be cleared by everyone.

While true there has to be a certain amount of people to make it worth dev time. If SE nerf it then it's clearly not in their opinion.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, it's not. This game doesn't have the playerbase like WoW has and in my opinion WoW's four difficulties are just too much.

Three bosses every 6 months does not make a raiding game and it never has been a raiding game it's just one of the avenues.

If people can't do savage as it is then those people are not hardcore raiders, 'simples'. The only viable way if SE want more people to raid savage is to make it a little easier, maybe to the level coil was before the nerfs.

And in doing so, they potentially damage the endgame content further. If even say 30-40% of players could clear A3 Savage, then there is nothing left to challenge them until the next patch. Considering that Alexander Savage was released on July 23rd, and the only comparable content would be Thordan EX. This would equate to over six months of nothing to work towards in terms of "hardcore" content. MMOs require some sort of wall to impose upon players to inevitably challenge them or we're just trading one set of complainers for another.

[Saccharin]

And in doing so, they potentially damage the endgame content further. If even say 30-40% of players could clear A3 Savage, then there is nothing left to challenge them until the next patch. Considering that Alexander Savage was released on July 23rd, and the only comparable content would be Thordan EX. This would equate to over six months of nothing to work towards in terms of "hardcore" content. MMOs require some sort of wall to impose upon players to inevitably challenge them or we're just trading one set of complainers for another.

Blizzard don't even have 30-40% participation in their four difficulties. Reading through this thread you'll find that instead of banging their head against a boss for months most people will, or have, just quit either due to them tiring of it or fellow static members. Four months on four bosses is enough to drive anyone to quit.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Blizzard don't even have 30-40% participation in their four difficulties. Reading through this thread you'll find that instead of banging their head against a boss for months most people will, or have, just quit either due to them tiring of it or fellow static members. Four months on four bosses is enough to drive anyone to quit.

I think you don't really understand just how few people even do raids.
If 30-40% of the population was even attempting alexander savage it would be something for S-E to be bragging about for having the best attendance of any MMO raid ever

as it stands now i would have a ton more fun just having a farm night for alexander than player A quits because it's no fun then player B quits because A was his friend then going through 3-6 sets of recruits before finding 2 new ones that can handle dps check while doing mechanics and by then player C quits because he's just tired of being stagnant training new recruits then more testing and training to find a competent new guy then player D decides progression isn't going fast enough and server transfers to be one of the recruits of another group going through the same thing and it just goes round and round

You both are misinterpreting what I said. That percentage was merely a random example to cite people quitting over A3's immense difficulty would likely quit later on due to "having nothing to do" if it were nerfed enough they were able to clear it. Shelf life is fine, but there needs to be a wall of some degree maintain a lengthily enough challenge until the next bevy of content is released. Frankly speaking, if people outright quit because they cannot beat A3 savage, they were always going to quit eventually. The issue I take with nerfing it is this presumes all content is meant for everyone. I am a big proponent of midcore level raiding, yet also feel there should be something in the game for those who enjoy brutally difficult challenges. It's the equivalent argument I have towards games that claim to have multiple difficulty levels, but make them all relatively easy.

The operative word there is "you." Conversely, I would have fun preparing for Savage, but I'm also someone who will grind for 7+ hours straight and occasionally enjoys games like Bloodborne, which is notorious for beating the crap out of you until you learn.

Now if they brought in the Echo, I could accept that "nerf" because it appeases both of sides. I still have the opportunity to get tarred and feathered until I finally get it (or die trying!) and others get an easier challenge if they wipe. What I don't want to see is a nerf equivalent to Steps of Faith. While I do appreciate why they did eventually nerf it, SoF went from a legitimate challenge with some interesting mechanics to a complete snooze fest. If they just lowered A3's DPS check slightly, I wouldn't have as much an issue.

One other solution I could get behind is what Mr. Happy grudgingly suggested. They nerf A3, but the next levels of Savage become just as hard to compensate. Basically, it opens up progression and a better opportunity to prepare for the harder challenge ahead.

[Nihility]

You both are misinterpreting what I said. That percentage was merely a random example to cite people quitting over A3's immense difficulty would likely quit later on due to "having nothing to do" if it were nerfed enough they were able to clear it. Shelf life is fine, but there needs to be a wall of some degree maintain a lengthily enough challenge until the next bevy of content is released. Frankly speaking, if people outright quit because they cannot beat A3 savage, they were always going to quit eventually. The issue I take with nerfing it is this presumes all content is meant for everyone. I am a big proponent of midcore level raiding, yet also feel there should be something in the game for those who enjoy brutally difficult challenges. It's the equivalent argument I have towards games that claim to have multiple difficulty levels, but make them all relatively easy.

The operative word there is "you." Conversely, I would have fun preparing for Savage, but I'm also someone who will grind for 7+ hours straight and occasionally enjoys games like Bloodborne, which is notorious for beating the crap out of you until you learn.

Now if they brought in the Echo, I could accept that "nerf" because it appeases both of sides. I still have the opportunity to get tarred and feathered until I finally get it (or die trying!) and others get an easier challenge if they wipe. What I don't want to see is a nerf equivalent to Steps of Faith. While I do appreciate why they did eventually nerf it, SoF went from a legitimate challenge with some interesting mechanics to a complete snooze fest. If they just lowered A3's DPS check slightly, I wouldn't have as much an issue.

One other solution I could get behind is what Mr. Happy grudgingly suggested. They nerf A3, but the next levels of Savage become just as hard to compensate. Basically, it opens up progression and a better opportunity to prepare for the harder challenge ahead.

You still don't seem to understand the population at all.
Alexander Normal has been bashed repeatedly throughout this entire thread as having no lasting power yet if you randomly queue for it you get in less than 5 minutes every time for any floor. It's not even very good gear with diadem around yet it's being run nonstop all day every day

No matter how boring you or I may find it the empirical evidence would suggest Alexander normal is among the most popular things in the entire game.

Alexander Savage on the other hand is destroying large chunks of the raiding community. Just yesterday I witnessed two separate groups implode under the pressure causing people blaming each other for not being able to beat dps checks despite no deaths

What was wrong with binding coil's difficulty level? It was tough enough to need a lot of work and practice but it wasn't just a huge brick wall that made the normal raiding crowd lose hope completely. I don't recall any mass exodus of people leaving the game because it was too easy like you seem to keep predicting with alexander

[ForbiddenMonk]

A3S kills can be pugged. Its been going on for a while now. I'm hoping they would wait till 3.2 to nerf previous raids. Give a chance to the stragglers (myself included) to finish up A4S

[Kuwagami]

A3S kills can be pugged. Its been going on for a while now. I'm hoping they would wait till 3.2 to nerf previous raids. Give a chance to the stragglers (myself included) to finish up A4S

Of course you can, being on gilgamesh. It's like saying that you can pug AS3/4 on chocobo. But on "normal raiding scene" servers, AS1 & AS2 are little miracles when they are downed with pugs (and by that I mean real, random pugs, not selected few in LSs). And the fact that there is a raiding exodus on other servers (gilgamesh, odin...) doesn't help.

[KarstenS]

A3S kills can be pugged.

Odin is right after the legacy server Ragnarok the most popular EU raiding server.

I don't have seen any A3S/A4S PUGs within the last month. No practise groups. No kill groups.

Sometimes a static is looking for a filler. But nothing else.

[RiceisNice]

...

Normal mode can essentially be considered as filler content since it's shelf life isn't that long beyond the gated gearing process. If they had say, FCoB-tier normal mode and savage mode, the former would still last a bit longer, for both the process of gearing and content for players to tackle, while at the same time, savage still present a challenge without making people burnout if they're attempting it over the course of 4 months (when a month or two is spent on the previous tier).

To ride on what you're asying, savage mode being the only raid tier, and even if people do clear it, all that's let is the gearing process behind it then it becomes exhausted. Content needs to have shelf life, but at the same time it shouldn't be overly inacessible for the general population to tide them over until the next content patch.

[Nihility]

And in doing so, they potentially damage the endgame content further. If even say 30-40% of players could clear A3 Savage, then there is nothing left to challenge them until the next patch. Considering that Alexander Savage was released on July 23rd, and the only comparable content would be Thordan EX. This would equate to over six months of nothing to work towards in terms of "hardcore" content. MMOs require some sort of wall to impose upon players to inevitably challenge them or we're just trading one set of complainers for another.

I think you don't really understand just how few people even do raids.
If 30-40% of the population was even attempting alexander savage it would be something for S-E to be bragging about for having the best attendance of any MMO raid ever

as it stands now i would have a ton more fun just having a farm night for alexander than player A quits because it's no fun then player B quits because A was his friend then going through 3-6 sets of recruits before finding 2 new ones that can handle dps check while doing mechanics and by then player C quits because he's just tired of being stagnant training new recruits then more testing and training to find a competent new guy then player D decides progression isn't going fast enough and server transfers to be one of the recruits of another group going through the same thing and it just goes round and round