Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[SnugglesD]

Words

First, you're a prime example of why the anti-parsing argument is immature and naive. If you nearly resorted to transferring servers because a few people harassed you over being a new tank, that's a serious problem. Not everyone is going to have only nice things to say. In fact, not everyone SHOULD have only nice things to say. You can't merely run away from every less-than-flowery thing someone says on the internet. The true solution, the one that would solve the whole situation, is that people need to grow up. So what if people are asshats? At the end of the day is it really going to harm you? Brush it off and move on like an adult. Everyone else has to do it. Its an unavoidable fact of life that people are horrible - each and every one of them. Just deal with it like we all have to.

Second, no one is getting banned for saying they use a parser. Not a single person. Ever. The devs all acknowledge that raiders use them and they've blatantly stated they aren't going to do anything about it as long as dps shaming doesn't get reported.

Third, the downside to not having a parser? Not everyone is like you and content to frolic through the fields of La Noscea. Some people want to be good at what they do. You know how people get better at things? Practice and quantifiable measurements. Without those measurements for comparison, no one ever knows they're truly improving. It goes for anything. Literally anything ever.

[BigRed5392]

First, you're a prime example of why the anti-parsing argument is immature and naive. If you nearly resorted to transferring servers because a few people harassed you over being a new tank, that's a serious problem. Not everyone is going to have only nice things to say. In fact, not everyone SHOULD have only nice things to say. You can't merely run away from every less-than-flowery thing someone says on the internet. The true solution, the one that would solve the whole situation, is that people need to grow up. So what if people are asshats? At the end of the day is it really going to harm you? Brush it off and move on like an adult. Everyone else has to do it. Its an unavoidable fact of life that people are horrible - each and every one of them. Just deal with it like we all have to.

Second, no one is getting banned for saying they use a parser. Not a single person. Ever. The devs all acknowledge that raiders use them and they've blatantly stated they aren't going to do anything about it as long as dps shaming doesn't get reported.

Third, the downside to not having a parser? Not everyone is like you and content to frolic through the fields of La Noscea. Some people want to be good at what they do. You know how people get better at things? Practice and quantifiable measurements. Without those measurements for comparison, no one ever knows they're truly improving. It goes for anything. Literally anything ever.

I play on PS4 and main smn. I have never been parsed willingly and don't care to be parsed. I dont need to know numbers to know how good i am doing. Just attack a mob solo (like the b rank hunt or striking dummy) and watch how fast it dies. if it takes a long time, I know i need to improve my dps. I dont need to see the parser data to know if my dps is good or not.

Devs acknowledge that raiders are using parsers, but that doesnt mean it is not reportable.

and harassment like what azazura got (I was there for most of it) was uncalled for. since we transfered to tonberry, there has been very little if any harassment. Before we transfered, we ran an AK run (her first run and she was pld) and she didnt know what mobs could be ignored and what mobs couldnt. she just pulled (small pulls) and we started out killing everything in the dungeon. the WHM ended up going ahead and pulling the next set of unskippable mobs while me and the pther dps were helping azazura kill the ones she pulled. I wasnt complaining...free gil (lol). the WHM almost died cause they pulled the next set of mobs and blamed her for that cause she pulled skippable mobs and didnt know they could be skipped, and insulted her because of it. we eventually kicked the whm just to have them rejoin again in-progress (glad they made it impossible to do that). and the WHM was complaining cause she was pulling small and relatively slow cause she didnt know what could be skipped. the WHM not only insulted her as a player, but also personal insults which is never called for in an online game. and that wasnt the first time stuff like that happened to her. it also happened while she was lving.

[Ghishlain]

Go to ff11 forums, look up "gear-swap" That is the type of community you pro parser are asking for and IS whats going to happen.

All this bickering is just a rehash from ff11 and the "gear swap" mentality. I do not want DF leveling to be turned into exclusionary "top dps or gtfo" You guys keep claiming it doesn't happen, but it did in FF11 I couldn't level or do non end game content on a fresh character w/o some jack arse insulting me calling me human filth for not gear swaping.

it was a trend started in 2010-2011 where players (mainly pc due to plug ins) would create multiple gear sets for each individual attack to get the most out of it. At first it was just an endgame thing, then it trickled down to even leveling. If u was a ps2/360 player and had nmo macro room or will to get ALL the gear required, you was called a bad player, lazy, human filth. Told to quict because you wasdted everyones time.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Gearswap / Windower provided players with the means to do the 12-14 equipment swaps required to maximize their potential in combat at the touch of a button. This was a huge differences compared to how a PS2/360/non-modded-PC player would need to hit 2-3 macros for a gear change then hit them with a weaponskill / spell for maximum effect. This became so mainstream that S-E had to eventually introduce their own "set save" mechanic that can be called upon by a macro to do the same thing and even built their fights around challenging these tiers of players. In short, gearswap / windower was a performance enhancing tool that became mainstream due to optimization.

A parser is just a tool to help players calculate their raw numbers and see what they can do to improve themselves. A parser does not affect the performance of the player directly whereas Gearswap / Windower does in FFXI. You won't see that kind of degradation of player here because parser is a performance measuring tool, not a performance enhancing tool.

Jerks will continue to be jerks regardless if they have access to a parser or not.

I play on PS4 and main smn. I have never been parsed willingly and don't care to be parsed. I dont need to know numbers to know how good i am doing. Just attack a mob solo (like the b rank hunt or striking dummy) and watch how fast it dies. if it takes a long time, I know i need to improve my dps. I dont need to see the parser data to know if my dps is good or not.

Devs acknowledge that raiders are using parsers, but that doesnt mean it is not reportable.

and harassment like what azazura got (I was there for most of it) was uncalled for. since we transfered to tonberry, there has been very little if any harassment. Before we transfered, we ran an AK run (her first run and she was pld) and she didnt know what mobs could be ignored and what mobs couldnt. she just pulled (small pulls) and we started out killing everything in the dungeon. the WHM ended up going ahead and pulling the next set of unskippable mobs while me and the pther dps were helping azazura kill the ones she pulled. I wasnt complaining...free gil (lol). the WHM almost died cause they pulled the next set of mobs and blamed her for that cause she pulled skippable mobs and didnt know they could be skipped, and insulted her because of it. we eventually kicked the whm just to have them rejoin again in-progress (glad they made it impossible to do that). and the WHM was complaining cause she was pulling small and relatively slow cause she didnt know what could be skipped. the WHM not only insulted her as a player, but also personal insults which is never called for in an online game. and that wasnt the first time stuff like that happened to her. it also happened while she was lving.

That's unfortunate that that had happened and I'm sorry that it did. Unfortunately, there will be people in this community who are like that and there's not much you can do about that but grit your teeth and hope karma kicks them in the tail.

While I've personally had my fair share of stupid people to deal with (and funny enough, the worst person I've had to deal with also came from AK), I've only had one incident where parsing was used to harassment in the 2+ years I've played (and from my understanding that person got GM'd to death).

The tool won't suddenly make player's have a terrible attitude. It's the player's with terrible attitude that will always have a terrible attitude.

[Elazu]

Stuff

What does this have to do with OP wanting a personal parser for self-improvement and people like Azazua being against that?

[Azazua_azura]

What does this have to do with OP wanting a personal parser for self-improvement and people like Azazua being against that?

I never said I was against it.

I was saying what would happen if it was added What people are not understanjding is the Link between gear swaping and parser debates. People use the same arguments on BOTH debates, and stem from the same exact crowd. Which is "play my way if you don't you suck because I said so and here is math to prove it"

gear swaping happen because of parsers. It was how players could get top dps, using plug ins to increase macro size to pull it off. This mindset (both gear swap amd parser numbers) went from raid content in ff11 to leveling content. You was expected to do it 24/7 in any and every content. This isn't a case of jerks being jerks, but hive mine conformity if you go against the hive mind your ousted.

And further exmple of parser in leveling content was hive mind conformity over rdm being able to melee in again leveling content, basiclly if you was a rdm who used a sword and hit a mob you was kicked. If you was a smn who used your avatar you was kicked, this was due to parser data reading that rdm melee was low and avatar dmg was low for the mp cost. Which slowed the exp/hr rate.

Thos also lead to again the flavor of the mnth level bursts of jobs based on how SE tweeked them.

At the moment parser use is againsy the ToS, yoshida only understood this will be used (he is a pc mmo gamer and knows this stuff from a pc gamer pov) But as a SE employee he can't state they are ok due to the SE ToS. Stating use them but don't talk about using them. This means players only talk about them in their raid static. If parser are made public that would change, and to deny it, is not seeing the bigger picture.

I could care less if a parser gets added though, what I don't want to see is DF exclusion. I already had my fill of that playing as a new tank on NA severs.

The only reason you didn't see it in WoW or DCUo as much is leveling is 100% solo. Early FF11 and current FF14 leveling isn't 100% solo.

And I never once argued for or against parser I just stated i dislike parser, feel they are not needed, and my experiences that lead me to think that way. What I got in return is harrasment, and fallacy about gaming from pro parser people who think I'm an idiot for disliking something.

So ya my boyfriend stuck up for me, because i was upset I was mistreated for giving my two cents.

I honestly feel bad for players when they feel they need to parse to know if they are good or not, and simply can't use chess like ;thinking to improve.

Also and correct me if I'm wrong,
Parser run by collecting data by calculating each skills damage over a period of time and if programed well, factors in Dot. on top of this and presented as a ratio of over all damage per second.

If I'm not incorrect how does one come up with a rotation based on that?

simply put what i mean is 5+6+7 = 6+7+ 5 = 5+7+6= 7+6+5 over the same 10 seconds.

Only variable being buffs use which changes the numbers based on the timing use, procs that increase the damage or apply a buff.

And debuffs that again change the numbers.

And why does one need a parser when there is a chat log battle text which reads your own person damage per skill (which is what parser read/factor)

With option of seeing other players batle log text (which again used by parser to factor dps)

This is what people have failed to explain since WoW when I asked, and I'm not being rude, just trying to learn more about this.

For me personally, don't factor ration well, at most when I play any rpg i factor (with out a tool) my dmg vs rate the mob dies. And try to increase4 my damage to make a monster die faster.

Either by testing combination of skills, gear, stat allocation via trial and error. All with out numbers outside of Percentages. I can mathmaticaly do percentages easier then ratio. Personally speaking I've always used geomatry and mentally picturing the hp bar in a grid format and calculating much and how fast i can take ouch each but of the grid. Again w.o a tool to do the math for me.

This is how I play ff14, when factoring my skill use/ buff use/ bonus state setting. Via trial and error.

[Kaurie]

And I never once argued for or against parser I just stated i dislike parser, feel they are not needed, and my experiences that lead me to think that way. What I got in return is harrasment, and fallacy about gaming from pro parser people who think I'm an idiot fordisliking something.
.

Are you talking about in this thread? I wouldn't really say much in this thread could be considered harassment. At best there may be condescending tones when bringing up counter points to one and other arguments. This naturally happens in a debate over the internet. However, if you feel you're being harassed, simply say as much. I am sure no one means to be harassing you.

(When I say, 'say as much' I don't mean make a blanket statement like the one above, but quote who harassed you and say "please keep the conversation civil, as there is no reason to make this personal." or w/e).


As for answering a couple of your other questions:

- reading the battle log is a possibility but a ridiculous expectation.
- the math can be used to figure out an optimal rotation, but the tool of a parser helps you realize if it's working how you expected. It also allows you to compare with others in your ilvl range, class range and via the internet. This then allows you to see if there is room for improvement, or if you're able to help others who need/want to improve.

[ShanaShirayuki]

I never said I was against it.


So ya my boyfriend stuck up for me, because i was upset I was mistreated for giving my two cents.

I honestly feel bad for players when they feel they need to parse to know if they are good or not, and simply can't use chess like ;thinking to improve.

I said I wouldn't respond, but the above is just an utterly despicable mindset I felt like I had to speak up. You say something so downright condescending towards the OP and other console players who want something that would ultimately help them improve and quantify their performance, yet you wonder why you feel you're being mistreated? Give me a break.

Everything you've said up until this point has been discredited by this statement, certainly does not bode well for your... "argument".

[Ryel]

Question why is not having a parser considered the worst thing in the world?

It's not, and the only person in this thread having said as much is yourself.

can you improve without a parser?

Depending on your job sure you can, up to a certain point.

The tools provided by the game are not sufficient enough to track and calculate your performance within a reasonable amount of time nor do they give live feedback, this is especially crucial when playing at endgame where DPS checks are the go to design for raids and certain Ex primal encounters.

Is anyone expecting top tier play and parse results in content like expert roulette and the diadem?

Nope, not at all.

They are however expecting players to at least play close to average, or rather up to the level and ilvl of their equipment.

The job forums, any class rotation guides, BiS guides and fight strategies have all been created through the benefit of someone somewhere parsing and recording their data, analyzing it and then peer reviewing it. if you've ever looked at any of this information or asked someone else advice based on this information you have indirectly reaped the benefits of someone using a parser.

I never said I was against it.

I was saying what would happen if it was added What people are not understanjding is the Link between gear swaping and parser debates. People use the same arguments on BOTH debates, and stem from the same exact crowd. Which is "play my way if you don't you suck because I said so and here is math to prove it"

This conversation only happens if someone is so far below the average that it's becoming a detriment to the 3 - 7 other members of your party.

Despite what you may believe MMOs are team oriented games, they aren't designed for solo play when you start reaching content at the highest level. This means you are expected to perform in a way that benefits the team because everyone pays their subscription fee the same as you and does not wish to waste time and in game resources bashing their heads futilely against not only the encounter but also a stubborn party member.

gear swaping happen because of parsers. It was how players could get top dps, using plug ins to increase macro size to pull it off. This mindset (both gear swap amd parser numbers) went from raid content in ff11 to leveling content. You was expected to do it 24/7 in any and every content. This isn't a case of jerks being jerks, but hive mine conformity if you go against the hive mind your ousted.

And further exmple of parser in leveling content was hive mind conformity over rdm being able to melee in again leveling content, basiclly if you was a rdm who used a sword and hit a mob you was kicked. If you was a smn who used your avatar you was kicked, this was due to parser data reading that rdm melee was low and avatar dmg was low for the mp cost. Which slowed the exp/hr rate.

Thos also lead to again the flavor of the mnth level bursts of jobs based on how SE tweeked them.

This is only a half truth and it's a gross oversimplification of what really happened in XI

What really happened was when analysis went into stats it was discovered that various weapon skills and spells reaped benefits from various stats.

Something like Penta Thurst being a 5 hit weaponskill with a 20% STR and DEX modifier meant that the natural conclusion to get more damage out of it was to stack STR, DEX, ACC, ATK (if you met accuracy) and Crit.

You didn't need a parser to see the increase in damage that changing gear would provide you, which lead to having TP and WS sets; one set to get TP as soon as possible and another to swap in per weaponskill.

for spellcasters this came in the form of various spells having modifiers like INT, MND, CHR (lol) VIT, etc

By intentionally not gearswapping mid battle you were gimping your performance in comparison to someone who was and since battle was slow enough paced to eyeball some of the changes you didn't always need a parser or 3rd party tool to see if someone was bringing down the performance of the group.

Now yes there were players that used 3rd party programs to create elaborate gear swap macros but they were far from a neccesity, with proper macro snytax (and a few pages) you could emulate the same macros in game, i would know as i did it for 7 years on DRG, NIN, THF, and COR (granted i didn't play RDM)

At the moment parser use is againsy the ToS, yoshida only understood this will be used (he is a pc mmo gamer and knows this stuff from a pc gamer pov) But as a SE employee he can't state they are ok due to the SE ToS. Stating use them but don't talk about using them. This means players only talk about them in their raid static. If parser are made public that would change, and to deny it, is not seeing the bigger picture.

I could care less if a parser gets added though, what I don't want to see is DF exclusion. I already had my fill of that playing as a new tank on NA severs.

The only reason you didn't see it in WoW or DCUo as much is leveling is 100% solo. Early FF11 and current FF14 leveling isn't 100% solo.

This is exactly why mostly console users have been asking for in in game feature, because once you get to mid/endgame it becomes important to start contributing adequate DPS to the party, this is especially a problem for classes like Summoner that are entirely DoT based with the game having no proper feedback system to analyze and evaluate your performance.

And I never once argued for or against parser I just stated i dislike parser, feel they are not needed, and my experiences that lead me to think that way. What I got in return is harrasment, and fallacy about gaming from pro parser people who think I'm an idiot for disliking something.

So ya my boyfriend stuck up for me, because i was upset I was mistreated for giving my two cents.

I honestly feel bad for players when they feel they need to parse to know if they are good or not, and simply can't use chess like ;thinking to improve.

This is incredibly condescending and you may not even realize how.

Just because you feel that you do not want or need something doesn't mean there aren't others who see the value and want such things, if you don't care either way then why bother trying to put them down and convince them otherwise?

If you really are neutral and don't care then a parser being added to the game will have little effect on you even if you dislike them.

You have not been mistreated or harassed so far in the thread, disagreeing with your opinions is not a form of harassment, especially when others are posting evidence to the contrary.

With the number of in game harassment issues you are claiming to have dealt with I'm beginning to wonder if you're just the unluckiest player in MMO history, or if we really aren't getting the full picture.

If it's the latter it might be something for you to consider.

Also and correct me if I'm wrong,
Parser run by collecting data by calculating each skills damage over a period of time and if programed well, factors in Dot. on top of this and presented as a ratio of over all damage per second.

If I'm not incorrect how does one come up with a rotation based on that?

simply put what i mean is 5+6+7 = 6+7+ 5 = 5+7+6= 7+6+5 over the same 10 seconds.

Only variable being buffs use which changes the numbers based on the timing use, procs that increase the damage or apply a buff.

And debuffs that again change the numbers.

And why does one need a parser when there is a chat log battle text which reads your own person damage per skill (which is what parser read/factor)

With option of seeing other players batle log text (which again used by parser to factor dps)

This is what people have failed to explain since WoW when I asked, and I'm not being rude, just trying to learn more about this.

For me personally, don't factor ration well, at most when I play any rpg i factor (with out a tool) my dmg vs rate the mob dies. And try to increase4 my damage to make a monster die faster.

Either by testing combination of skills, gear, stat allocation via trial and error. All with out numbers outside of Percentages. I can mathmaticaly do percentages easier then ratio. Personally speaking I've always used geomatry and mentally picturing the hp bar in a grid format and calculating much and how fast i can take ouch each but of the grid. Again w.o a tool to do the math for me.

This is how I play ff14, when factoring my skill use/ buff use/ bonus state setting. Via trial and error.

If you are able to do this that is great for you, continue to do so.

But if others wish for a game feature to be added that allows them to do the same, the supportive community response would to be either to help them in their endeavor or ask them to post math so you can help them figure out a rotation.

Telling them they don't need one because you can do the math on your own however comes across as nothing but callous and mean.

[Gardes]

and harassment like what azazura got (I was there for most of it) was uncalled for. since we transfered to tonberry, there has been very little if any harassment. Before we transfered, we ran an AK run (her first run and she was pld) and she didnt know what mobs could be ignored and what mobs couldnt. she just pulled (small pulls) and we started out killing everything in the dungeon. the WHM ended up going ahead and pulling the next set of unskippable mobs while me and the pther dps were helping azazura kill the ones she pulled. I wasnt complaining...free gil (lol). the WHM almost died cause they pulled the next set of mobs and blamed her for that cause she pulled skippable mobs and didnt know they could be skipped, and insulted her because of it. we eventually kicked the whm just to have them rejoin again in-progress (glad they made it impossible to do that). and the WHM was complaining cause she was pulling small and relatively slow cause she didnt know what could be skipped. the WHM not only insulted her as a player, but also personal insults which is never called for in an online game. and that wasnt the first time stuff like that happened to her. it also happened while she was lving.

What does this have to do parsers and harassment from parsers again? Are you in this thread because Azazua got upset enough from being pointed out how illogical and hypocritical she is?