Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[Mycow8me]

"Kids".

I work with what you give me. I've already attacked the meat of the argument which you would have noticed actually contained a legit reason as to why someone doesnt want paerser's unless "its toggleable" not to protect egos.

[Ryel]

I work with what you give me. I've already attacked the meat of the argument which you would have noticed actually contained a legit reason as to why someone doesnt want paerser's unless "its toggleable" not to protect egos.

You say that but it was already brought up and answered as to why a "toggle-able" or personal parser wouldn't really work.

The long post is a few pages back but the short of it is that giving players the option to essentially "hide" or not show their results to the rest of the group instantly causes frustrations in the event of a wipe due to a failed DPS check when the party basically has to witch hunt through it's members to verify numbers.

Players who may not have been hostile before are likely to quickly turn as such when they have to spend 10 minutes filtering and debating through party members to find out which DPS class was only doing 1/3rd of the damage they should be. The result is that players would wrongly say "See this is why we shouldn't have a parser!" etc when the issue would entirely be the situations that arise from not having free and open access to the information and while yes you would be able to report players like you can now, it's more likely to lead to antagonizing situations than the alternative of just having a public parser.

Players already complain when people sneak into "farm" parties or the 100 Eso or w/e message shows up and they have to stop the run for 10 minutes to figure out who joined the party without a clear, amplify that x1000 when the party wipes to a hard enrage @10% because they're short on DPS and are unable to isolate and fix the issue.

It's why an Opt-in, personal, or personal toggle-able parser which sounds like a more acceptable compromise on paper would actually end up as the option more likely to lead to cases of player harassment.

All that being said I'm not personally against the addition of one, I'm merely pointing out that it isn't the great compromise everyone seems to think it is when they bring it up.

[Mycow8me]

I wasn't talking about toggling others from seeing mine, they already can regardless of whether or not I want them too. That's not going to change, as been stated in the thread. I was talking in regards to the OP wanting something on screen in the form of a parser or an average DPS display on screen for people who are trying to improve. A feature like that, I would want toggleable.

Wanting a Parser for improvement and wanting a parser for finding the weakest link in a party are two different subjects. It seems the latter is what the majority of people seem to care about though whenever parsers come up in a convo. The OP actually just cares about improving which is ironic.

[Ryel]

Wanting a Parser for improvement and wanting a parser for finding the weakest link in a party are two different subjects. It seems the latter is what the majority of people seem to care about though whenever parsers come up in a convo. The OP actually just cares about improving which is ironic.

No, what's ironic is that you don't realize the two are actually the same thing.

You cannot have one without the other, how can one improve if they don't know where improvement starts?

Self improvement and party evaluation are not mutually exclusive concepts, they go hand in hand.

Finding the weakest link in the party also means that player now has a point of reference to start improving, any player can sit there and spike high numbers on a stationary dummy parse because it doesn't move or hit back, the real test is going into live content where it matters and seeing if your skills and gear hold up while you deal with fight mechanics.

Maybe that player learns they need to hold a GCD between a certain move? Maybe that DRG knows they are going to lose BoTD due to a phase change so they need to adjust before hand? Maybe the BLM has to change the timing of when they toss down Ley Lines in order to get the most out of it's duration? Maybe your accuracy was too low for the encounter or maybe you're overshooting by 100 points and can swap out a piece of gear?

These are things you learn in live content and are exactly how you improve your play.

The thing is this happens at the same time you are also trying to clear content and this is where proper evaluation and data helps and if a single player isn't up to the level of the content it doesn't mean that the 7 others in the party aren't either, they should have every right to know this and adjust accordingly if they need to in order to continue making attempts on the fight.

The key is not taking critique as a negative.

It's entirely possible to be the weakest link one run, get some practice in and turn around to top the charts the next time around, but if you had no idea that you were under-performing before then how would you have any idea whether or not you needed to improve?

[Critical-Limit]

I work with what you give me. I've already attacked the meat of the argument which you would have noticed actually contained a legit reason as to why someone doesnt want paerser's unless "its toggleable" not to protect egos.

Why does it need to be toggle-able?

Explain to me what benefit comes from turning it off and blinding yourself and your party to your performance. If at all possible keep it out of "protecting feelings" if you can I doubt you can come up with a good reason.

And you ignored my argument. Explain to me how not being offended outweighs equality in options?

Try to argue both of my questions.

[Kazumac]

Why does it need to be toggle-able?

Explain to me what benefit comes from turning it off and blinding yourself and your party to your performance. If at all possible keep it out of "protecting feelings" if you can I doubt you can come up with a good reason.

And you ignored my argument. Explain to me how not being offended outweighs equality in options?

Try to argue both of my questions.

The benefit is we might get some of those afraid of harassment to agree to it? I'm in agreement I don't think there is much benefit but i also don't mind not parsing DF randoms. I don't really care about "protecting feels" (you can see no other posts on that) and I don't thing it would change a thing about harassment if there was a toggle. I just want to move some stick in the muds anti parser people. Other than that it serves no real benefit.

[Mycow8me]

Try to argue both of my questions.

Page34, How can you want equality in options and at the same time wonder why I simply want a toggle?

Um, I don't see how you can't have one without the other. I don't understand how a toggle would prevent someone from doing anything in the post you just stated either "but if you had no idea that you were under-performing before then how would you have any idea whether or not you needed to improve?"
It's called "toggle on" after finding other people to practice with assuming you still needed to toggle on? I cant remember a time I couldn't tell what I was doing wrong in a dungeon without the need of a parser but I could see it happening although you guys seem to think I'm against toggling it on all together and just want a toggle to play devils advocate. With toggle comes the ability to "turn it on".

This thread is a headache, I don't understand why I have to defend wanting a toggle. It's like you guys want to rub parsers into the face of everyone, even those that don't need it, don't want it, or simply only want to toggle it.

This thread is a headache, I'm seriously done guys. I'm sorry we couldn't see eye to eye.

[Critical-Limit]

The benefit is we might get some of those afraid of harassment to agree to it? I'm in agreement I don't think there is much benefit

I understand why we would agree to that. I want to know why the other side would agree to that. And the REAL reason I'm asking him specifically this is because he claims it's "not to protect egos". So I'd like to hear the real reason why he thinks that should be an option. He claims there is a non-feelings part to this being an option I want to hear it.

If SE held a vote and parser side was losing because we vote pure transparency, but we could win with a toggle option. I could understand why we would settle for that. But I want to hear his reasoning

[Gilraen]

Basically what the title says.

I've started levelling ninja and the inability to critique my own opener or be able to see rotation errors dps wise in a dungeon is just so frustrating. I feel like I'm running completely blind without a parser (ps4 player here).

For some reason people get up in arms about parsing but I don't care about seeing other people's or not. I want to be able to see my own to properly learn a class.

There was a whisper of a in game parser palace that's basically never been spoke of again, is that still a thing that's going to happen?

Is it such a big deal to implement a personal parser? You would only be able to see yourself that way and not use it to bully others or whatever it is SE are worried about.

Okay... this thread has been off the rails long enough. Looking back my replies haven't been to the topic, but rather to the multitudes of people going back and forth about something the original post isn't even asking for. So I'll help reiterate, what's wrong with a personal parser? If you want to know someone else's numbers why not ask? If they don't want to share then that's that. Why is this such a big deal?

[Ryel]

Okay... this thread has been off the rails long enough. Looking back my replies haven't been to the topic, but rather to the multitudes of people going back and forth about something the original post isn't even asking for. So I'll help reiterate, what's wrong with a personal parser? If you want to know someone else's numbers why not ask? If they don't want to share then that's that. Why is this such a big deal?

It's answered literally less than 10 posts prior to this one...