So you've given SMN a role, but...

[MagiusNecros]

But I want to throw my Deathbringer. I didn't save up 990 Eso so I could actually USE the thing.

I will quote Delily and say "stop comparing class to past iterations and focus on current design". A design where the only things worth throwing are daggers and a Fuma Shuriken. *shrug*

I mean why make it complex and have to choose weapons of varying potency strength when we can just get flat guaranteed damage off a Fuma. Options are for sissies.

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Surprisingly I've often wondered why we couldn't have an ability that makes the Pet explode and do AoE damage when our Pet dies.

[Fevelle]

I will quote Delily and say "stop comparing class to past iterations and focus on current design"

What I read: "Stop comparing FF jobs to previous FF jobs and focus on what players that didn't experience most of the franchise want from the game".

[MagiusNecros]

What I read: "Stop comparing FF jobs to previous FF jobs and focus on what players that didn't experience most of the franchise want from the game".

That's exactly how I felt when I read it initially as well.

[FeliAiko]

What I read: "Stop comparing FF jobs to previous FF jobs and focus on what players that didn't experience most of the franchise want from the game".

He's right though, at least in SMNs case.

This is a job that has never been the same across FF. On top of that its main gimmick has never been enough to keep the job sustainable without either borrowing from other elements (like the ability to cast black or white magic), or making said gimmick a universal feature that all players can do (e.g. VII, VIII). Even the pet mechanic I've seen people pushing so much is only a recent adaptation of the role, so to me the XIV SMN is simply another iteration in the line of iterations this job has already gone through.

[Delily]

He's right though, at least in SMNs case.

This is a job that has never been the same across FF. On top of that its main gimmick has never been enough to keep the job sustainable without either borrowing from other elements (like the ability to cast black or white magic), or making said gimmick a universal feature that all players can do (e.g. VII, VIII). Even the pet mechanic I've seen people pushing so much is only a recent adaptation of the role, so to me the XIV SMN is simply another iteration in the line of iterations this job has already gone through.

FeliAko has it right. There is no consistent experience for a summoner.

FF1&2: Job not present.
FF3 to FF9: Summons are casting animations that do AoE effects.
FF10 - Summons actually joined Yuna in a fight, but the other 2 left out.
FF11 - Players were the proxy to the summons.
FF12 - FF10 style summons? I've never really played 12.
FF13 - FF10 style summons.
FF14 - DoT + pet.

In the vast majority of the main games in the series, the summons were glorified casting animations. That works well in the console games For the MMORPGS, not so much, mainly because you run up against the question of "how does this differ from BLM?"

[Delily]

I mean why make it complex and have to choose weapons of varying potency strength when we can just get flat guaranteed damage off a Fuma. Options are for sissies.

That's easy; in MMOs, options are nothing but an illusion. People will simply choose the mathematically superior choice and use it. From a developer perspective, too many options introduces complexity that leads to endless balancing and tweaking. Look at the patch notes for games like WoW, Diablo 2, Diablo 3, Everquest, Dark Age Of Camelot, etc. A large section of them are tweaks for skills on classes.

The notes for 3.1, on the other hand, has only a brief section on job adjustments. Amazingly enough, this lets the team focus on bringing new content like the Void Ark, LoV, the Diadem, etc.

Do you want the constant tweaks, nerfs, and buffs that come with an overly complex character system, or would you rather have more things to do?

[MagiusNecros]

I'm all for new content. But for me the most exciting thing for me to see is new skills for a class I specialize in. Which won't happen until another expansion most likely. Who knows if we'll get any new traits either. We didn't for HW. I honestly get more enjoyment out of the new dungeons then I do Void Ark or Diadem. The boss fights are a lot more fun at least for me they are. Void Ark I only run a few times a week just to get my gated drops. I can't stand Diadem at all. It isn't that fun to me.

[HeyAFunkyFish]

Void Ark I only run a few times a week just to get my gated drops. I can't stand Diadem at all. It isn't that fun to me.

Agreed. Gated drops and Pegasus mount. I can't even bring myself to legitimately grind Diadem for gear.

[Xaeth]

While I'm not a fan of the dot playstyle I can't really complain since it's part of Arcanist and not Summoner. What I'm not a fan of is the lack of consistency when it comes to Summoner. Shouldn't all abilities that you learn through the Summoner Quest Line be related to the job, to the art of summoning?
Abilities like Fester and Tridisaster shouldn't in my opinion be Summoner abilites since they aren't relatable to summoning. They are, in my opinion, Arcanist abilities.
I'm not saying that they should be Arcanist abilites because that would make Scholar unbalanced. Also, in Heavensward, they chose to drop the original summoner style for a completely different style which in my opinion isn't summoning but actually invoking the power of Bahamut.

My conclusion is that I find that Summoner right now feels like a mishmash of abilities justified by the lore and story. It is, in my opinion as a fan of the series, immersion breaking.
I hope that they, somewhere in the future, will fix this but, at the same time, I don't think they will.

Ps. My grammar is a bit lacking, I think, but I hope it's at least readable.

[SendohJin]

For the MMORPGS, not so much, mainly because you run up against the question of "how does this differ from BLM?"

this would be valid if the current SMN rotation consist primarily of using pet commands, it does not.

they could've build SMNs like Ninjas, give them 3 runes and different orders put them into different avatar stances and different stances would mean the available spells change. instead of Bio, Miasma, you would have Ifrit stance and a Burn DOT, a Ramuh stance and a lightning DOT, instead of Miasma II you would go into Garuda-trance and call Tornado that would put up an AOE wind DOT.

that would be vastly different from BLM because you need to change stances to cast the right spells, and you would still have to manage Astral Flow stacks for strong abilities like Inferno, Tidal Wave, Deathflare, etc.

BLM strong abilities are done via long cast time and/or huge MP consumption.

SMN without a pet would still be limited by some kind of Aetherflow like charge mechanic where it's more about managing that resource.