Thoughs on removing cross class skills and adding 5 new skills for each job come 4.0?

[Kaiser-Ace]

don't worry, not all dragoons are bad.

Funny, my DoT combo that I use with my Jump rotation easily causes consistent dammage. Mercy Stroke does not as I have to many other options. Between keeping Debuff on the opponent, dodging, and keeping procs active there is no damage gain. By the time mercy stroke's cool down is over I have two more jumps off cool down.

There's the "Meta" but then there's being cheep. I see DRGs Crossing Feather Foot more than I see mercy stroke. (A few times vs NEVER) And while Fracture is not exactly meta it is usually feather foot or mantra it's swaped for. Mercy Stroke even on warrior is only a slight dammge boost on a near dead trash mob. I'm battling EX Primals, Raid Bosses, and am my FC's resident God Slayer since I'm the first to run any new content and usually the only one to clear it.

So Mercy Stroke bing a Dps Pat on the butt that can only be used below 20% makes it less than worthless

[Eidolon]

There's the "Meta" but then there's being cheep. I see DRGs Crossing Feather Foot more than I see mercy stroke. (A few times vs NEVER) And while Fracture is not exactly meta it is usually feather foot or mantra it's swaped for. Mercy Stroke even on warrior is only a slight dammge boost on a near dead trash mob. I'm battling EX Primals, Raid Bosses, and am my FC's resident God Slayer since I'm the first to run any new content and usually the only one to clear it.

So Mercy Stroke bing a Dps Pat on the butt that can only be used below 20% makes it less than worthless

Pft, god slayer? Maybe with echo/unsynch, lol.

Here's why we don't use Fracture in our rotation:


1) There's no good way to work it into the rotation. Adding it in after Phleb will cause your Heavy Thrust to run off, losing potency on the reapplication of it before going back into your Chaos Thrust combo rotation.

2) It causes your DoT's to fall off. The only one it assists, slightly, is Chaos thrust, reducing the clip from roughly 8-9 seconds down to 3~. The only way to prevent htis lost uptime is to clip your own DPS, resulting in a loss.
3) It's a massive TP sink. You are dumping 80 TP on a DPS wash/loss. At best, your DPS is breaking even with a good Dragoon. At worst, you're annoying your bard 'cause he has to sing Paeoen for you sooner.
4) It delays the uptime on your Fang and Claw / Wheeling thrust. Losing out on that Geirskogul potency because you're constantly pushing back the buff by 3 seconds every time you re-up your Fracture.

The only possible reason I would EVER cross fracture, is if I knew that I had to break off the boss for a period of time and wanted to let something Tick and I couldn't get a strong hit in. I.E, if I had completed a Fang and Claw and was about to run away, and wanted to put up a Fracture, that might be a way to add a little DPS, 'cause it's a strong single-potency hit. But it's not good for the Dragoon rotation.

But hey, if that's not good enough for you, I'd be happy to go head-to-head with you. I won't even use Mercy Stroke to boost my DPS. I'll literally just not use fracture and have a friend who can tell us what our numbers are. But I doubt you'd listen to that, "Mister God-Slayer" (Oh god I can't even hold back giggling typing that.)

[Kaiser-Ace]

snip

Well, i'm actually a big proponent of 1v1 PVP. Since we share a server the minute solo matches are allowed in the Wolves Den I'll be happy to make you my first PK. And I've never had to rely on a bard. have had to Tank on my own from stupid pulls though. Always better to take the beating than let the healer take it. Maybe when I'm actually capable of DPSing and nothing else I'll consider BS rotations that can only be measured with illegal programs. Suppose you're one of those that thinks DET doesn't matter since Blood of the Dragon was added too? Yes, I think a PVP match would be the only way to settle it. And Bring anything you want. Mercy Stroke, Potions, Icirrus Feathers, Won't matter after I PK you in the Arena.

[Eidolon]

Won't matter after I PK you in the Arena.

PVP and DPS are not the same thing... XD I won't even pretend to be good at PVP, "Mister God-Slayer" (PFFFFFFFFFFFT) and the fact that your reaction to directly comparing numbers (I'd lower my gear level to yours if need be) is "OMG FYTE ME 1 ON 1" without any actual rebuttle... just shows how much of an emberassment to Dragoons you are. XD

I don't know any Dragoons that say DET doesn't matter... But I guess that's a perspective of people you meet.

[Kaiser-Ace]

PVP and DPS are not the same thing... XD I won't even pretend to be good at PVP, "Mister God-Slayer" (PFFFFFFFFFFFT) and the fact that your reaction to directly comparing numbers (I'd lower my gear level to yours if need be) is "OMG FYTE ME 1 ON 1" without any actual rebuttle... just shows how much of an emberassment to Dragoons you are. XD

I don't know any Dragoons that say DET doesn't matter... But I guess that's a perspective of people you meet.

I thought you were challenging me in that last paragraph? If not then I apologize for misreading that. But being as console player don't have tracking programs, and PC Parser are illegal programs by extension, how would this comparison work? I smack the target dummy and take your word for it? That's hardly an objective way to determine it. And I'll be the first to admit I'm garbage in PvP as well. Most people seem to be, especially in frontlines. Seem like the good Sir Eidolon though is a petulant teenager the way he responds to opposition.

Let me expose the truth on Parser futility. The "Dps Checks" have a minimum number required as do all content stat checks, but they are actually quite low. The Minimum Item Level is the only point where rotation and numbers matter more than dodging and paying attention. Anything else exceeding the gear requirement is more than enough. My item level being 200 with my Det and Crit both barley under 600, my accuracy well over 600, and nearly 1100 STR far exceeds nearly all stat checks with the exception of Thorden EX who's minimum DPS requirement is a little higher than usual. Savage Alexander, all of the Coils, and even the 8 EX primals are more about paying attention and staying in synch as a team. And the big kicker, is that individual DPS is not what is measured but GROUP DPS. So as long as the team as a whole is meeting the check all you have to do is, to quote so many tanks, "Dodge and Don't Die."

So to recap, having maybe a few digits less than a single lulgoon is irrelevant when we're all dead. And if no one dies when the group as a whole meets the checks, instant win. Your DPS data is irrelevant. Unless the Instant wipe Hard Enrage activates you meet the minimum requirements. Then all you need to do is stay alive. If you passed the check but died anyway then no amount of gear or DPS increase will fix that. A Dead Player's DPS is Zero after all.

But I digress, perhaps it would be far better to have a TRUE specialized job by abolishing the cross skill system. Truth be told, I could do with out the melee cross skills. And mages could simply have a roll over skill tacked on like how Stoneskin 2 was added. Then maybe these "Meta" arguments would end and we could all be like WoW where we have that One Skill we're good for and just sit back in the zerg till it's time to fire. Oh how interesting that would be, like looking through Chocobo Crap for Gysahl Greens.

Long story short, If I wanted to see a train wreak of an MMO with zero customization and all the stat and skill choices made for me, I'd play maplestory instead. The Cross skills are to make up for gaps in the unite not stand us out as lone wolves. I take a fire ball to the face and I'm dead on arrival, A Paladin how ever can eat it and keep going. he goes down though and I can survive long enough for the healer to rez him and the tank to regain control. This is ultimately a Unit vs Lone Wolf argument and thus a farce since this is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game aka a Team effort. So when lone wolves stop dieing in raids for the sake of their DPS then I'll allow critiques on my skill choices.

[Eidolon]

Snip

lol... 'petulant teenager'... You are really bad at appologising for misunderstandings if you through out an insult in t he same base. I'll just accept your appology and move on - that's easy enough to do, "Sir God Slayer" (PFFFFFFFFFFFF)


Nah, I meant like, a training dummy so we can kinda clean up the rotation a bit. I tend to work with a lot of dragoons on their rotation. And I'm rarely outdone in content on damage because I can handle a good rotation and mechanics at the same time. Thordan EX is just a recent example - I've always been a pretty exemplary player of Mechanics > DPS and that MNK's need to get off their lazy ***'s and do some with the rest of the group (Nothing funnier than a MNK who doesnt' do mechanics doing less DPS than a DRG though.)

Here's my issue with you, however:


Not a single bit of this supports the idea that "Mercy Stroke is useless!" This is what everyone was calling you out on - that oyu literally, in the same breath, try to call a staple skill of anyone who actually pushes their numbers 'useless' while simultaneously toting how your "Fracture" is better than it. You offer up nothing to support contrary to this - and instead, you're now going into a tangent about lack of customization and how min/maxers don't matter and that all that matters is group dps and mechanics.

So I'm not sure where your tangent came from. It just seems to be a sidebar out of desperation and a failure to reaise just why people are pointing out your choice in cross classes are atrocious (Though I do agree with you, to an extent - as I stated myself. Featherfoot is lul-worthy.)

Heck, even the fact that you call another dragoon "Lulgoon" in your own post... I dunno man. There's just something about your complete lack of an arguement that doesn't sit well with me.

You change gears more than the Fast and the Furious series.

A WHM at lv 59 would still not have that skill.
For ASt with lv1-30 skills it work because the AST start with lv 30.

hmn... you're definitely right.

Well, it's not like they have to have the skill learned via quest. I think that they can unlock it via the job just like a leveling skill - so once you hit 20, it's yours? That'd be a pretty good alternative, and would help with the issue of low-level players not having enough buttons to press (Looking at you, sastasha!)

[Venjamin]

Snip

Dude, I am so in love with you. I'm still working on Dragoon, but I swear on Thor's frosty nipples that this is the most well-organized explanation of cross-class DPS maximization for them that I've ever seen. The fact that you're schooling someone with provable numbers is just icing on the cake.

@Kaiser - "Team DPS" is definitely a thing. But to NOT maximize your points puts an inherent strain on the rest of the team.

Your job is to DPS to the best of your ability. If your DPS wanes, the likelihood of failure increases. If everyone has your same attitude, pushing only what they deem to be 'reasonable' numbers, that likelihood CONTINUES to increase. That's the only reason people use Parsers, so they can maximize their output and can make sure everything moves smoothly.

If your whole team fails, but your bonus DPS from maximizing could have put you over the threshold, what's your excuse?