Tank Balance - Thordan EX 7-WAR 1-WHM Clear (Really SE?)

[Brian_]

Why are you attacking a straw man? You realize that I am actually a PLD main, right? If you check my posting history, I have always posted in their defense.

The issue now is I have nothing to defend. I made no statements regarding PLD. Only that your point about WARs being competitive with actual DPS was wrong.

I said that the numbers don't tell the truth and that if you are going to use them to push the narrative of WARs being competitive with actual DPS, you're delusional. Your reply? Some unrelated BS about WARs being better than PLDs and DRKs.

Again, my point was that WARs are not competing with actual DPS. Would you actually like to provide any real argument otherwise?

How can I be wrong when all the garbage you just posted is unrelated to my point?

I would just like to say one word. Perspective. You have none. You haven't cleared any relevant content ever. You probably don't even play any tank class at a half respectable skill level. You only know how to cry, whine, and complain. Half your statements make no sense or are just false. If the DPS check is not demanding, you could bring a lot of unconventional comps. Does that mean those classes are OP? People 7 man Thordan EX when selling runs. I guess WARs are under performing since they need 1 more person. If the DPS checks are demanding, DRK is still a better choice than WAR for MTing because they deal more damage than WARs within that role. On fights like Thordan EX, PLDs fill that MT role instead.

Here is some more perspective.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...view?sle=true#

That's a DnT DPS leader board from the FCoB era before part of DnT split off to form Elysium with Collision. You see the WAR DPS there? You see the PLD DPS there?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...986353&vpid=A1

Check the bottom tabs for T10-T13.

WARs have always been putting out good DPS. This current situation is not new. While the gap between WARs and DPS might not be as small as it is currently, it certainly was never a huge gap. And, part of me wants to think that because it wasn't as necessary, it also wasn't as vigorously min-maxed. PLDs have always been comparable but generally lower depending on their ShO up-time and the WAR's OT up-time. Again, nothing new here.

Go watch the Mogtalk regarding Tanks (Warriors in more detail) with Layla and Xenosys.

The current state of tanks is due to issues of DPS that arose from design decisions in early Savage progression and a flock of brainless doomsayers that kept that snowball rolling long after the issues were no longer pressing. So, now, the snow ball has grown to the point that we get statements like "And tell me that tanks are balanced when PLD and WAR can have up to almost 80% gap in DPS, while WAR still have the same mitigation as PLD..." that lacks all critical thought, logical reasoning, and understanding. You think a statement so idiotic helps PLDs or hurts WARs? It doesn't. Anyone who knows anything knows how flawed that garbage is and it only furthers the idea that PLDs are idiotic cry babies.

[Reynhart]

Only that your point about WARs being competitive with actual DPS was wrong.

And again, WAR DPS is far too close to regular DPS. That's what is "competing". Yes, their numbers are generally lower, but the difference is far more thin when compared to everything WAR has to offer. Especially, when WAR's rotation to output really good numbers is far more easy than actual DPS rotation. And, while still doing great numbers, WAR are more forgiving against other mechanics since they're far more sturdy.

Some unrelated BS about WARs being better than PLDs and DRKs.

Oh, sorry, I believed the topic was titled "Tank Balance..."...silly me.

Lots of personnal attacks

Ouch, what a strong point. I have absolutely nothing to reply...good thing I have nothing to prove to you.

Oh, and by the way, since tanks balance threads are all over the place now, I'm sure everyone that complain is just the same as me while you still hold the very truth that there is nothing wrong with WAR. Again, a little reminder. This topic started with a clear video of a 7-WAR PT killing the most recent content as fast as any usual setup. So, it doesn't require a math degree to understand that since the boss has the same HP, for killing it with the same time, you have to output around the same DPS...

Here is some more perspective.

You call that "perspective" ? "Let's compare situations before WAR got absolutely everything that make it unstoppable now..."
You must be kidding...

While the gap between WARs and DPS might not be as small as it is currently, it certainly was never a huge gap.

Right, that wasn't a huge gap...WAR were around 20% lower than BRD, now they're around 2%...nothing to worry about, sure.
Did I mention that, while receiving tremendous boost to their DPS (With the highest one time potency move of every job), they also received more tools to mitigate and one of the best self-sufficient skill ?

The current state of tanks is due to issues of DPS that arose from design decisions in early Savage progression and a flock of brainless doomsayers that kept that snowball rolling long after the issues were no longer pressing.

Actually, no. The current state of tanks is not an aftermath of DPS checks in Savage. It's much more simple as that. Before HW, you only had two tanks, and it wasn't a very good idea to stack the same job. So, you'd bring both tanks.
And besides, back in the days, each tank has a favored position either for survival or DPS. PLD was more sturdy, and WAR could bring great things as OT if they didn't have to use BB constantly. For DPS, WAR was undoubtedly higher as MT, and PLD was very close, if not higher (Thanks to Slashing debuff), as OT.
WAR's new design made him the king of DPS in all spot, HW design favored DRK regardless of any DPS checks, and we still only need two tanks. That's what pushed PLD away. Its ability to survive as MT is totaly on par with WAR, and as an OT, all of its mitigation and healing skills are worhtless.

"And tell me that tanks are balanced when PLD and WAR can have up to almost 80% gap in DPS, while WAR still have the same mitigation as PLD..." that lacks all critical thought, logical reasoning, and understanding.

Please, enlighten me. What is the reasoning and understanding behind the current balance of tanks ?

[Brian_]

Oh, and by the way, since tanks balance threads are all over the place now, I'm sure everyone that complain is just the same as me while you still hold the very truth that there is nothing wrong with WAR. Again, a little reminder. This topic started with a clear video of a 7-WAR PT killing the most recent content as fast as any usual setup. So, it doesn't require a math degree to understand that since the boss has the same HP, for killing it with the same time, you have to output around the same DPS...

This is why no one should take you seriously. You look at that video, the gear people are wearing, the lodestones provided, the fact that it's on the 23rd of November 2 weeks after early progression, and the kill time and you don't think that's slow? Have you even done Thordan EX? In that video, he ends phase 1 at 74%. Decent groups will all skip the last cleave and have Thordan sub 70%. Most decent farm groups will have Thordan dead when that group is at 15%. A group with multiple A4S clearing players geared in what is likely full BiS is going to perform a little better than just a decent group. To give you an idea, I've been in farm groups that have pushed phase 1 at 67% and killed shortly after the stacked mechanics in phase 8, ~21% before this group kills. And, that's with 2 healers (though the SCH basically is just DPSing).

it doesn't require a math degree to understand that since the boss has the same HP, for killing it with the same time, you have to output around the same DPS...

Sure thing, bro.

I have nothing to prove to you.

This is not about proving anything to me. I couldn't care less. This is about the legitimacy of your posts and the credibility of what you're saying. And, on too many occasions, you've proven you don't know enough to be having any respectable conversation.

Usually, I don't really care about individual progression when gauging the validity of posts. If what's said makes sense and checks out against basic knowledge, then who cares if they're a casual or if they've cleared A4S. The issue arises when the posts look like yours and are just littered with garbage.