Diadem and Savage - I can't deal with it anymore

[Ladon]

Its realy sad to read all those raiders and to realize (i knew it from very beggining) that they are sooooo petty about that one single special carrot called the exlusive gear, not only exclusive they want it to be the best. And they only care about best gear, they dont care for personal chalenge and the feeling of 'I CAN DO IT', noo-- if the best gear comes from farming lvl1 monsters they would farm it all day without ever setting foot in any other content. People like those are the ones that, lets say, never climb the everest, because you know there is no special gold loot chest. The only thing on their minds is to have this one bling to shine all over the place to make them feel like they are some kind of god bestowed kings. Its very boring to play with such ppl they are the one that speed, mass pull everything and are first to complain. It is very funny to see those raiders emerge at predictable time when that hard content is clearable stably with general error margin included (call it an intended gear-up). And they poison every single content they set foot in. If I could I would blacklist them globaly, to never be included in their parties and even to never read their comments in forum also to never let my comments (opinion) get in their way, because simply to me they are empty spaces or atleast i would preffer to eliminate them from any form of virtual, physical interactions.

Personaly i think best gear should never be in raid, that is one of the worst places to place stat-oriented gear reward, because the very fact is that raid is hard and you need the best gear to clear it. Current equation of gear acquisition is perpetualy constructed in a way that after your first clear or bis gear upgrade you are ever further driven away from incentive to help other/later player, for you content is accelerated (and that means constant acceleration) from there onward, but the one who comes later is driven further and further away from getting on the stage of equal footing.
Imagine a sports where disciplines first occrurance first prize would be better gear for next discipline so the one who comes first in the first discipline is praticaly set to win every other that follows and the gap grows with each race , becasue statwise (and stats are the only thing that practicaly matter) he is better set win. This is the current situation in the gear placement in the game and sadely this treand is accross practicaly every MMO there is where there is some RPG elemnt attached with stat growth.

The hypocrisy in these kinds of statements is just astounding.

Boohoo the raiders want to keep gear from the lowly casuals. I don't want to raid but I want access to all of the best gear! Those selfish raiders! What about me, me me! I want access to all the gear, but the selfish raiders want to keep it all to themselves!

Oh and lets step back into reality a bit here. A 500DPS i185 DRG isn't going to become a 1300DPS machine with i210 gear. It just isn't happening.

[NatSilverguard]

whoa this thread. o.O

but seriously, with all the flavors in the world, why choose salty?

[Yurihyuga]

Yeah, the part you don't get is that raiders don't get full 220 or 230 gear day one of the new raid coming in 3.2. It can take a few months (even more if we look at alex savage) for raiders to get this high end gear. By the time most raiders get a full set, the "catch up" patch comes along before we can even savor the rewards of our hard work.

Why would it be so bad for the ilvl catch up gear come out with each new installment of the 8-man raiding content? So, instead of having catch up every 3 months, having it every six months. Obviously gear progression would need to be tweaked for a six month duration, such as giving casual players a way to get ilvl 205 if raid gear is ilvl210. That's how it works in virtually every other vertical progression mmo.

That would be fine but then there is the other part raiders seem to forget about, more options? Why would you want to limit yourself to raid specific gear when the catch up patch hits plus what about people that didn't jump onto savage on day 1 and the people who are raid orientated but sometimes struggle and some other options to gear faster to help give there dps a boost especially since savage is such an extreme dps check. It is quite astonishing that these petty arguments as a general rule only gimps raiders in the long run.

[zosia]

That would be fine but then there is the other part raiders seem to forget about, more options? Why would you want to limit yourself to raid specific gear when the catch up patch hits plus what about people that didn't jump onto savage on day 1 and the people who are raid orientated but sometimes struggle and some other options to gear faster to help give there dps a boost especially since savage is such an extreme dps check. It is quite astonishing that these petty arguments as a general rule only gimps raiders in the long run.

We can just do what every other vertical progression mmo does? We don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water here. In other games, adjustments are made throughout the raid tier to boost clear rates when progress trends stagnate. The same can be done in this game.

A dev team dose not need to invalidate the entire body of rewards of a current raid tier to boost clear rates.

[Ossom]

Personally, I have cleared AS4 and I like the diadem. I like the idea behind the diadem and I've enjoyed playing some of my rarily played classes in the diadem to get them gear. Anyone who decides to take a minute to actually think about how 3.2 will play out should realize that Diadem gear isn't going to be as relevant as you think.

3.2 Is going to introduce :

Story Alex 5-8/9 with gear better than Savage, and a new Tomestone, this means that the Diadem gear you do wear into Savage Alex (which might not come out for atleast a week or two after Alex Story) won't be sticking around long after you start clearing content. ~ 3-4 weeks into 3.2 and you probably won't have any pink gear left on your mains.

The only thing I wish they would have added was a Title to go with my Gobbie Mount for downing AS4. So I can roleplay as a good player even better. :3 Other than that, you don't need gear to prove that you are a good player.

It's not just casuals who have benefitted from Diadem. Actually I see more mid/hardcore people doing it than casual.

Personally I hope this leads to some horizontal progresseru so I can get a trait that lets me Proc Bootshine to apply Dragon Kick's effect when Demolish Crits. :3 So I can crit more Bootshinerus.

[Ashkendor]

So please stop crying over sub stats because it really doesn't matter with the current system we have. Now if we had a horizontal progression system that places rare and unique traits on gear then I can see Diadem being a huge freaking problem. Because normally in horizontal progression systems the BiS gear is found in the hardest content.

If you were to equip a set that overloaded you on nothing but accuracy, you'd do less damage than if you were using a set that was loaded with crit/det/sksp. Secondary stats, when you're talking about an entire set of gear's worth, actually do make a pretty big difference (unless you're talking about Parry, where you need several hundred points to get a paltry 1% mitigation).

People aren't even upset that the Diadem gives gear that's equal to the current raid tier. That happens every raid cycle. The Diadem currently has the potential to give gear that is vastly superior to even the raid gear.

I like to generalize about a huge portion of the playerbase based on how a few people act.

Yes, we noticed. That's an awfully large brush that you're painting an awful lot of people with. Please stop.

People raid for many different reasons, gear being only one of them.

Oh and lets step back into reality a bit here. A 500DPS i185 DRG isn't going to become a 1300DPS machine with i210 gear. It just isn't happening.

650 dps machine! Or more likely, 650 dps floor tank. :3

[Butcherboy]

I like the addition to this new of content. It's gives variety to stats. So not all 210 are the same. It keeps you in constant gear checks, because of random stats. Before diadem once you get BIS gear from eso and Alex savage you've seen them all and you run around d wearing the same thing. With diadem there's balance. That's means you can create your BIS in most un-orthodox way. But it works. Also 3.2 will balance that even more with raid and eso gear being meldable .

[Kuroyasha]

We can just do what every other vertical progression mmo does? We don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water here. In other games, adjustments are made throughout the raid tier to boost clear rates when progress trends stagnate. The same can be done in this game.

A dev team dose not need to invalidate the entire body of rewards of a current raid tier to boost clear rates.

This pretty much.

I'm just going along for the ride now to see what they do with 3.2 based on feedback they've received and ideas they've already had set for the patches.

[Dante_V]

Need is subjective and this entire OP is way to generalized to even take seriously.

IMO a great player is someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to allow the team to accomplish it's goals and contribute to this end effectively.
This includes using foods or potions for progression and anything else that may be necessary (gear/relics/etc.) I'm willing to make investments and I want my teammates to be on the same level personally. A person who is willing to go extra lengths is much bigger asset then one who will not. Period.

As far as what other players are doing Idc. It doesn't matter who else thinks what about how I've achieved my ends and double so if they can't be bothered to beat the fight themselves.

[Dante_V]

As far as the current savage raid I'm not impressed and I don't think it is very engaging. At least not like coil was.

As far as diadem I think it's fine within the vertical progression goes. . The raid problem existed before diadem and is nothing new. Although I do think diadem should be throwing out 205 and 200 gear respectively for a little more of incentive towards raiding. I don't think savage is properly incentivized. I also think story mode could have been a little harder.