Diadem and Savage - I can't deal with it anymore

[BloodPact]

If I may ask, what would make you interested in the savage? Because that's the most important question. Casuals need way more motivation than hc raiders to try something hard.

Developing content for only small portion of the playerbase isn't wise... but you can develop content for the hardcore raiders and at the same time make it appealing enough for the casuals, even though it would take them longer to achieve their goals.

Having a solo version. Relying on 7 other people is not my cup of tea. I grew very frustrated about it back in the Final Coil seeing people make the same mistakes over and over and my free time after work and before bed melt away and end up with frustration instead of a fun time. So I just quit endgame. This is an MMO, so asking for what I want is kind of absurd, so I just completely ignore raiding and not even consider it part of the game.

I agree. We should definitely get more raids and even harder regular dungeons. I've been saying for a long time that for a game that brings so much profit to a company that their team remains so small is baffling. This is one of the reasons why they probably need to keep choosing between what to release. I'm all for hardcores getting their share of content as well.

What I don't agree with is when other people complain like the OP is saying, which basically is that no one outside of Savage deserves i210, especially when it doesn't affect them in the least. It's obviously just the hurt put on the superiority complex.

[Ashkendor]

Because you need to be a pro to say the truth on something?
Then I guess to you every movie is good, every food is delicious, and every athlete is good enough to make it to the pros.

He may not raid savage, but you know what he said is true about not needing diadem gear to clear savage.
Unless all those clear stats before 3.1 are fake.
Unless of course the problem you have is with a non-raider saying the truth.

Nope. He's failing to take into account people's varying skill levels and the amount of time they have to dedicate to raiding, though. My static is on A3S right now, and progress is slow at best. We're not as skilled or as dedicated to raiding as the likes of Elysium and Lucrezia, and I'll be the first to admit that. We also had some awful roster issues back in A2S that almost entirely kept us from raiding for a little over two weeks. The thing is, we still enjoy tackling the harder content in the game. So what, if we can't pass it at our current item level we don't deserve to clear and we should just hang it up and go home? Or maybe we should just keep beating our heads against it till either the static breaks up or we break through the wall we're at? It seems more reasonable to obtain more gear and keep trying since that loosens the DPS checks and makes it easier to survive some mechanics.

Do the best of the best need more gear to clear? No, but many other people arguably do, and I find it more than a little amusing to have what amounts to a backseat driver telling me what I need or don't need to achieve what I want to achieve in the game.

[zosia]

Not only have I not tried A4S. I haven't any of the Savage turns; because I'm not interested. How would me raiding or not be relevant to my point?

Since it seems to elude you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credibility

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/credibility

http://www.monash.edu.au/lls/llonlin...academic/2.xml

Get some credibility, otherwise you're acting a bit presumptuous.

If at this point you are still trying to finish Savage you are not hardcore; the OP is referring to the hardcore section of the playerbase. If you are among those who push for world clears and that sort of stuff, the hardcore base, then I say it again, you should reconsider your approach to FFXIV.

"doesn't raid alex savage, has plenty of things to say about it and the players participating in it"

Cool, keep speaking from ignorance, you are so good at it.

Yoshida: Yes! Let's definitely keep developing to those 0.1% of players you just mentioned and leave whatever time we can spare to the 99.9%. I'm sure the board of directors will give me a huge Christmas bonus from the killing numbers we'll make in revenue!

Yeah! because we can only cater to absolutes! There is no way we can find a balance that exists in other MMO's! There is only Give everything to casuals or give everything to hardcore! Please continue to be hyperbolic, it shows how poor your arguments are.

Grow up.

How about you grow up. In the real world, you have to work for your supper. I wish I lived in your world where I can just show up, mouth breath and roll my face across the key board and have everything handed to me.

Not relevant. That's like saying you need to be a politician to comment on politics. What I said in your quote about not needing Diadem for Savage is a fact, not an opinion.

You are not merely commenting, you are acting like an authority making wild claims about what makes a person a hardcore or not in addition to what players deserve if they can't contend with a4s.

If anything, your the exact problem with the political system. A person who is very opinionated while being poorly informed.

Because you need to be a pro to say the truth on something?
Then I guess to you every movie is good, every food is delicious, and every athlete is good enough to make it to the pros.

He may not raid savage, but you know what he said is true about not needing diadem gear to clear savage.
Unless all those clear stats before 3.1 are fake.
Unless of course the problem you have is with a non-raider saying the truth.

I have a problem with people passing any sort of judgment on a player's achievements without walking in their shoes. It's straight up ignorance. Yes, I have a problem with ignorant people making assertions from ignorance. Its one of the most frustrating things to deal with on these forums.

Nope. He's failing to take into account people's varying skill levels and the amount of time they have to dedicate to raiding, though. My static is on A3S right now, and progress is slow at best. We're not as skilled or as dedicated to raiding as the likes of Elysium and Lucrezia, and I'll be the first to admit that. We also had some awful roster issues back in A2S that almost entirely kept us from raiding for a little over two weeks. The thing is, we still enjoy tackling the harder content in the game. So what, if we can't pass it at our current item level we don't deserve to clear and we should just hang it up and go home? Or maybe we should just keep beating our heads against it till either the static breaks up or we break through the wall we're at? It seems more reasonable to obtain more gear and keep trying since that loosens the DPS checks and makes it easier to survive some mechanics.

Do the best of the best need more gear to clear? No, but many other people arguably do, and I find it more than a little amusing to have what amounts to a backseat driver telling me what I need or don't need to achieve what I want to achieve in the game.

that truth just crit for 9999!

[RukiaFae]

That\\'s not really true. Some people just see this for what it is. A game. Some of us are busy putting in greater effort in our daily lives where it matters and can\\'t afford to invest 100 hours in to raiding. Casual people pay for the game just like everyone else. Based on the entitlement logic we don\\'t need/or should want good gear because we don\\'t have the time to raid. Only raiders should have this because they are best. They have to treat everyone fairly because we are all paying customers. They have to give multiple options for the people who can\\'t raid. Diadem gear was made to help casuals catch up so they can do things like Thordan ex and future content. I\\'m paying like everyone else but if I don\\'t have the gear then I\\'m locked out if future. The people who have time to spare have more items than the same old casuals who can\\'t spam it for hours on end barely have any.They made the gear look different and added RNG so that the raid gear would still be special. Raiders are of course mad because they want to be special because of their hard work. They are special but they need highest level gear to tell them. They have gear most of us will never have but they aren\\'t satisfied. In the real world the hardest working people don\\'t always have the highest salary.

[Arashmin]

Bad example. Politicians set laws for and govern everyone, including non-politicians, so being interested in politics is reasonable. Raiders and non-raiders really don't have that same interaction. A better example would be someone that only watches football telling a college quarterback that he's not good enough for the NFL so he should just hang it up and go play PeeWee football instead.

Actually there is some truth to it. They may not generate the content, but they are the ones that are being developed for at the high-end, with there being a huge gap from there to the next hardest content. So, while indirectly so, they do dictate the success and failure of the end-game, even if not directly (which also, a vast number of politicians are in that boat, probably to the same extent of 'Raiders who are not devs' to 'Raiders who are devs', especially with the current clear numbers).

[AuroraPolaris]

I still see many people fixating on the same retort. You can have your bloody 210 gear, go nuts in Diadem and get all the gear you can carry. The issue is that Diadem gear can be and is higher than end-game raid gear. This doesn't make sense on any level. The highest level should always give the best reward, just think about it logically.

[BloodPact]

Nope. He's failing to take into account people's varying skill levels and the amount of time they have to dedicate to raiding, though. My static is on A3S right now, and progress is slow at best. We're not as skilled or as dedicated to raiding as the likes of Elysium and Lucrezia, and I'll be the first to admit that. We also had some awful roster issues back in A2S that almost entirely kept us from raiding for a little over two weeks. The thing is, we still enjoy tackling the harder content in the game. So what, if we can't pass it at our current item level we don't deserve to clear and we should just hang it up and go home? Or maybe we should just keep beating our heads against it till either the static breaks up or we break through the wall we're at? It seems more reasonable to obtain more gear and keep trying since that loosens the DPS checks and makes it easier to survive some mechanics.

Do the best of the best need more gear to clear? No, but many other people arguably do, and I find it more than a little amusing to have what amounts to a backseat driver telling me what I need or don't need to achieve what I want to achieve in the game.

To clarify, when I said that no one needs the Diadem drops for Savage I was referring to the hardcore group of players. People who are casually progressing are a much wider group and, like you said, will have many different skill levels and usually welcome things like Diadem because it pushes ilvls a bit faster so they can progress within the raid.

[zosia]

That\\'s not really true. Some people just see this for what it is. A game. Some of us are busy putting in greater effort in our daily lives where it matters and can\\'t afford to invest 100 hours in to raiding. Casual people pay for the game just like everyone else.

Yes, because all raiders have no real lives. I certainly don't have a research career, a family, friends, bills to pay, a clock to punch. Yeah, I have none of those things on my plate. You can't spend 100 hours on raiding? Do you think I just sat in my chair and raided 100 hours last week? Those 100 hours span five months. That's 20 hours a month, that's four hours a week. You certainly play this game more than four hours a week so don't trot out this "I have a busy life argument." We are all busy, stop making excuses for yourself and your unwillingness to try hard content.

Based on the entitlement logic we don\\'t need/or should want good gear because we don\\'t have the time to raid. Only raiders should have this because they are best. They have to treat everyone fairly because we are all paying customers. They have to give multiple options for the people who can\\'t raid.

You are treated fairly. You can raid alex savage you just choose not to. Also, ilvl 200 gear is very good gear! Good enough to clear many of the hardest fights currently in the game. How much better does your gear need to be? I want and need full ilvl 210 for the next raid tier in 3.2. Why do non-raiders need 210 gear if they are not going to be pushing the bleeding edge of progression?

Diadem gear was made to help casuals catch up so they can do things like Thordan ex and future content.

Thordan is easily doable in full ilvl 200, so there was no catch up needed. If the next primal will be easier than thordan and casual players don't raid, why do they need to be caught up to ilvl 210 when full ivl 200 is really not that far behind? They are not going to raid in 3.2 and the dungeon/primal requirements are low enough, so why do they need full 210?

I\\'m paying like everyone else but if I don\\'t have the gear then I\\'m locked out if future. The people who have time to spare have more items than the same old casuals who can\\'t spam it for hours on end barely have any.They made the gear look different and added RNG so that the raid gear would still be special. Raiders are of course mad because they want to be special because of their hard work. They are special but they need highest level gear to tell them. They have gear most of us will never have but they aren\\'t satisfied.

Alex normal gear looks exactly like savage gear. The only difference is one is dyable. One of the best looking color palate is already locked to normal alex gear, so whats so special about being able to dye alex savage gear a less appealing color?

In the real world the hardest working people don\\'t always have the highest salary.

So you want to promote that same injustice here that the hardest working people should get the shaft?

[RiceisNice]

Actually there is some truth to it. They may not generate the content, but they are the ones that are being developed for at the high-end, with there being a huge gap from there to the next hardest content. So, while indirectly so, they do dictate the success and failure of the end-game, even if not directly (which also, a vast number of politicians are in that boat, probably to the same extent of 'Raiders who are not devs' to 'Raiders who are devs', especially with the current clear numbers).

While they both have a purpose in recieving the content (and thus the success of the game), they're entirely different spectrum on what the content is though. Ash's point is that you can't necessarily comment on the upper-level side when you have not even stepped foot or relate to it.



The matter of fact is though, there's a huge discrepancy between normal and savage mode that doesn't quite hit the middle (and in all of 3.1, only thordan hits this). In 3.0, this would have been the EX primals (on release) and A1/2), following an unusually large update drought and players are left with not much else to do. It's less about what you can get out of hte content (the gear), but the content itself . I'm personally was never interested in LoV (and hopefully this is not the case for a majority of the playerbase, otherwise its a huge waste of developmental time) and Diadem could have been much much better in encouraging FC activities rather than spawn camping.

[hagare]

Nope. He's failing to take into account people's varying skill levels and the amount of time they have to dedicate to raiding, though. My static is on A3S right now, and progress is slow at best. We're not as skilled or as dedicated to raiding as the likes of Elysium and Lucrezia, and I'll be the first to admit that. We also had some awful roster issues back in A2S that almost entirely kept us from raiding for a little over two weeks. The thing is, we still enjoy tackling the harder content in the game. So what, if we can't pass it at our current item level we don't deserve to clear and we should just hang it up and go home? Or maybe we should just keep beating our heads against it till either the static breaks up or we break through the wall we're at? It seems more reasonable to obtain more gear and keep trying since that loosens the DPS checks and makes it easier to survive some mechanics.

Do the best of the best need more gear to clear? No, but many other people arguably do, and I find it more than a little amusing to have what amounts to a backseat driver telling me what I need or don't need to achieve what I want to achieve in the game.

True. People have varying skills.
What comes easy to some might not be so easy to others.
You might take longer to clear it if you don't have diadem gear, but you can finally clear it if you practice more.

But that still doesn't change fact.
Because objectively, the stats you need to clear it is already provided in the gear before 3.0
Do you need diadem gear to finally clear it? No. But it'll certainly help if you still have trouble with savage.

You don't need to be as good as elysium or lucrezia.
In some servers the content is even PUGable before 3.1

And I'm sorry but people skills, scheduling and roster problems are all on the player.
It doesn't matter what ilvl other players are wearing, because they don't effect you.