How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Ninjah2r]

Anyone any guide visual/written on how to push more dps during thordan ex?

I seem to be slacking lmao, atm i201 gear. but seems to me that drg can't get higher than 1000 dps on that fight being i201 :c

[muteSQUIRE]

A large part of Thordan EX is like hitting a striking dummy so if you're hitting your rotation cleanly and using your wits with regards to your BotD timer and upcoming mechanics there's not too much to elaborate on. Some small stuff of note which I see common in a lot of PF parties:

1. Get the melees to stack at the start to bait the AOEs so you don't miss a GCD if they aren't (it's super annoying how common this happens in PF).
2. You can start attacking before the gaze animation happens (as early as the cast bar disappearing - maybe wait a short tick after to be safe before turning).
3. During Paladins, if you get the first or second dive, use Elusive Jump to close the gap on the way out. Don't waste SSD/DFD since the vulnerability up will still be active by the time it hits. If your group DPS is poor (you're not killing one of them before the second Divine Right) and you need to run back to the other add, you might want to save a gap closer so there's less downtime if you do use Elusive.
4. If you get comet during Phase 8, break your chains, avoid the gaze then get right back in and continue DPSing. He turns around during the large wave AOE so flank/rear shouldn't be an issue, just make sure not to get cleaved after all is said and done. You could be really cheeky by continuing to DPS while the other person does the work, but this can lead to hilarious results. If you're going to do this, use the room in front of the boss/by the main tank to help break, be mindful of the gaze and you should be good.

[JackFross]

Anyone any guide visual/written on how to push more dps during thordan ex?

I seem to be slacking lmao, atm i201 gear. but seems to me that drg can't get higher than 1000 dps on that fight being i201 :c

You should be able to hit 1000 in the fight at i201 if you have the 200 or 205 spear, assuming you have MCH, NIN, or a second DRG in the party. You might fall short with MNK/BRD second-melee/ranged comp. I was hitting ~1060-1080 at i207-208 before I got my new spear, which has my best so far at 1125. I'm currently the highest DRG on the fight on fflogs who didn't have an AST feeding them cards.

A large part of Thordan EX is like hitting a striking dummy so if you're hitting your rotation cleanly and using your wits with regards to your BotD timer and upcoming mechanics there's not too much to elaborate on. Some small stuff of note which I see common in a lot of PF parties:

1. Get the melees to stack at the start to bait the AOEs so you don't miss a GCD if they aren't (it's super annoying how common this happens in PF).
2. You can start attacking before the gaze animation happens (as early as the cast bar disappearing - maybe wait a short tick after to be safe before turning).
3. During Paladins, if you get the first or second dive, use Elusive Jump to close the gap on the way out. Don't waste SSD/DFD since the vulnerability up will still be active by the time it hits. If your group DPS is poor (you're not killing one of them before the second Divine Right) and you need to run back to the other add, you might want to save a gap closer so there's less downtime if you do use Elusive.
4. If you get comet during Phase 8, break your chains, avoid the gaze then get right back in and continue DPSing. He turns around during the large wave AOE so flank/rear shouldn't be an issue, just make sure not to get cleaved after all is said and done. You could be really cheeky by continuing to DPS while the other person does the work, but this can lead to hilarious results. If you're going to do this, use the room in front of the boss/by the main tank to help break, be mindful of the gaze and you should be good.

These are all pretty good points of advice. Things I'd add to help out:
1. You should be getting 4 gsk, 3 Jumps, 2 SSD, 1 DFD, and 4 Leg Sweeps in phase 1 every time. I have 600 Skill Speed and manage just fine getting three full HT rotations + HT>ID>Dis before phase. The end gets a bit hectic with ogcd firing.

2. Zephirin - Don't pop cooldowns here. You'll waste time on your b4b and you don't need to burn him down that fast. I always just do HT>IDC>TTT>ID>Dis with Jump after CT and Leg Sweep after TT, with Mercy Stroke near the end if the group gets him low enough.

3. Paladins - Get IR+B4B up asap and try and pull off PS+Jump (with BotD) on whichever Paladin you start on before Divine Right. Be prepared and use SSD to cross to the other if they get Sword Oath. I have two different rotations I use in that phase, depending. It goes:
HT>ID>[IR+B4B]>Dis>[PS+BotD]>CT>[Jump]>4th>???
Mine has Sword - Ph>[SSD]>TT>[Leg]>VT>[Life+gsk]>FT>4th>HT>IDC
Other has it - [SSD]>ID>[Leg]>Dis>CT>[Life+gsk]>4th>HT>IDC
Both ways, your last CT should hit before you absolutely *need* to move assuming you have first blue mark, 4th hit if second, Phleb if third, ID before DFD if none. I use DFD to close the next gap to the opposite dude, regardless of shield, since it's more accurate and less irritating than Elusive. I Elusive for the *following* switch, if there is one, and SSD back to the other Knight after, if he's not dead yet.
*** I will add that I doubt it matters which you use in which position here between DFD/Elusive, since the next time you'll get DFD back either way is after Ultimate End; it'll come off-cd during the raid damage or before you'd even get to it in the combo you unload after, and the next time Elusive is useful is ~4-5 minutes later on, so there should be no issue getting it back before then either way.

4. Following that, you should have IR+B4B+BotD+PS+Jump all ready for the comet phase. I don't use Phleb or Chaos Thrust on the Comet Circles - I only use one CT combo when I get to the Meteor Circle. Usually, I'll try and kill two during b4b before getting to Meteor. I'm usually around 1070-1090 before Ultimate End.


5. You shouldn't miss any positionals during Spear of Light. If you do the rotation proper, you'll hit the 4th hit after your second CT with enough time to stack and hit Phleb before the spear goes out. You should be able to get TT>VT>FT after Spear before Gaze. Don't burn Blood here, save it for after Conviction, just in case you lose Blood. If you aren't in charge of Conviction towers, you can burn it out without worry, ofc. I usually burn it just before the Dragon's Rage knockback, and then re-use it when I'm back on the boss, since I help with Conviction.

6. Elusive Jump out if you have tether or dragoon jump. DFD should be up to jump back after. Hold it until after the marks appear; use it as soon as you have a free spot and know you aren't running. Don't burn Blood here - hold it for after the Mercy spread. I burn Blood out with a gsk when I run to spread for chains/ice/comets. If you have comet, SSD back as soon as your chain breaks (just be sure to be standing in a safe line for Mercy). If you have ice, SSD back as soon as the ice attack hits you. I usually run back, but holding SSD is probably more beneficial.


7. The rest of the fight from there is a dummy fight. Burn everything on CD and you should be doing pretty well.

For Battle Litany, I use mine:
1. On pull.
2. On the swap after Dragoon dives during double Paladins.
3. Right after the first Gaze in final phase.
4. Near the end, during the dummy phase, before Zephirin.

This is essentially on cooldown; I hold it a little bit for 2 and 3 so it doesn't overlap downtime, but 4 is popped immediately.



The most important advice for DPS on Thordan, though, is that the biggest DPS increase you can get is staying alive. If you die or cause the party to wipe because you ignored a mechanic to boost your own DPS, you're not gonna do well.

[Harkenia]

Is there any changes to the Advanced Opener I should make if I don't use pots? 95% of the time I don't use them unless my group is up against a progression wall and we need every last bit of dps to push through.

[JackFross]

Without potions, the only change I suggest is:

HT>[BL>B4B]>ID>[IR]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>...

It gives you more leeway on BotD while keeping everything else going nice. Another alternative I've been looking at/considering
(which *should* be higher pps, but I haven't had time to test it to know for sure yet):

HT>[B4B]>ID>[IR>BL]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>...

If you wait ~1s on popping B4B to get the 9 hits, you'll also then get 9 hits out of BL (the 8th and 9th hits being a 4th hit and Heavy Thrust, both of which are missed by using it right after HT)

Either one of those should work well.

[Ninjah2r]

^you can use IR+BOTD after Disembowel, to maximize more uptime of the blood timer. If you want that atleast

[JackFross]

You can, but. IR is gonna last you 6 gcds if you use it immediately when the GCD starts spinning. Used after ID, those 6 are Dis+CT+4th+Ph+TT+VT(+gsk, if you pop gsk before LS). If you use it a GCD later, IR is missing Disembowel and picking up Life Surge>Full Thrust, which doesn't get a benefit from the 10% crit buff. You can just delay BotD in the gcd by ~1s same as with B4B to get the same benefit without missing an IR-buffed GCD.

Shifting IR+BotD a gcd later is nice when using potions in fights such as A3S, where you don't get the full 60s of your initial BotD to run down, so you *need* that extra buffer to get 3 gsk in phase 1, but this is a discussion of the optimal no-potion opener.

[Monsoon]

I know this is an extremely simple question but I have to ask.

Can anyone help naming the full skillnames in the simple combo?


H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [DRAC-POT] -> DI -> [IR + BOTD] -> CT -> [PS+ LEGS] -> 4TH -> [GK] -> P -> [JUMP] -> TT -> [DFD] -> VP -> [LIFES] -> FT -> [SPD] -> 4TH -> Repeat

I know the simple abbreviations but I don't know the in between skills...

[JackFross]

I know this is an extremely simple question but I have to ask.

Can anyone help naming the full skillnames in the simple combo?


H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [DRAC-POT] -> DI -> [IR + BOTD] -> CT -> [PS+ LEGS] -> 4TH -> [GK] -> P -> [JUMP] -> TT -> [DFD] -> VP -> [LIFES] -> FT -> [SPD] -> 4TH -> Repeat

I know the simple abbreviations but I don't know the in between skills...

Heavy Thrust
[Battle Litany + Blood for Blood]
Impulse Drive
[Draconian Potion of Strength]
Disembowel
[Internal Release + Blood of the Dragon]
Chaos Thrust
[Power Surge + Leg Sweep]
Fang and Claw or Wheeling Thrust
[Geirskogul]
Phlebotomize
[Jump]
True Thrust
[Dragonfire Dive]
Vorpal Thrust
[Life Surge]
Full Thrust
[Spineshatter Dive]
Fang and Claw or Wheeling Thrust

[CookieMonsta]

Without potions, the only change I suggest is:

HT>[BL>B4B]>ID>[IR]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>...

It gives you more leeway on BotD while keeping everything else going nice. Another alternative I've been looking at/considering
(which *should* be higher pps, but I haven't had time to test it to know for sure yet):

HT>[B4B]>ID>[IR>BL]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>...

If you wait ~1s on popping B4B to get the 9 hits, you'll also then get 9 hits out of BL (the 8th and 9th hits being a 4th hit and Heavy Thrust, both of which are missed by using it right after HT)

Either one of those should work well.

What about swapping IR with BFB for the second rotation? That way, IR drops off just before the buffed FT + LS, and BFB remains for the 4th after that.