Worst fears about specialist crafting are realized

[StouterTaru]

The amount of work/gil with no prospect of an actual reward for it.

What reward was there ever in crafting, or the game in general? If reaching the top of a craft isn't a reward for you, then maybe crafting isn't your thing.

If you need to make loads of gil for all your effort, you're going to have to put in a decent amount of extra effort. Those multi-million gil profit synths only stay that way for a few days, then stuff gets old and other people can make it.

[Mindy_Macready]

What reward was there ever in crafting, or the game in general? If reaching the top of a craft isn't a reward for you, then maybe crafting isn't your thing.

Gil, for one thing? Supplying your raid? Gearing your alts? Honestly that sentence just screams of trolling, I am not sure if you were serious in asking it.

Some of those rewards don't really exist in HW at the moment, because they've decided crafted gear needs to be a lot weaker in order to make it easier to balance their raids.

If you need to make loads of gil for all your effort, you're going to have to put in a decent amount of extra effort. Those multi-million gil profit synths only stay that way for a few days, then stuff gets old and other people can make it.

Having started with a lot of gil from ARR, making more gil from 60s without specialists or 2-stars is pretty simple. There's no carrot for reaching the absolute top atm, which is what I was arguing.

[StouterTaru]

Having started with a lot of gil from ARR, making more gil from 60s without specialists or 2-stars is pretty simple. There's no carrot for reaching the absolute top atm, which is what I was arguing.

It was exactly the same way in 2.x; the first few to hit the new top tier can make the big gil per synth, anyone after that has to settle for a mere 5-6 figure profit per synth.

I've made several pieces of Sky Pirate gear for myself and FC members, there is demand for the gear. The problem on my server is the people look at the MB and see ingredients cost 120k, NQ gear listed for 1M, HQ for 2M.

Yes, right now specialist brings nothing to the table except recipes and a pretty color for the class in your character profile.

But that has nothing to do with what you described as what's exactly wrong with the new system, ie crafters spending a lot of gil. Crafters having a lot of things they can spend their gil on is a good thing.

[Mindy_Macready]

It wasn't this way in 2.x. Crafted gear had real uses, mats weren't gated behind ephemeral nodes gated behind RNG, we didn't have a red scrip system that was supposedly designed to help people gear up without spending tons of gil, but has failed to do so, etc. etc. Really it just seems you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

What I described is that there's a real, definitive work versus reward ratio in this patch regarding gearing. Crafters having a lot of things to spend gil on is only good if there's a decent carrot in it for them, and there just really isn't one at the moment. I've made most of my gil in this patch while avoiding the specialist recipes and red scrip system, and it isn't just to FC members I'm selling to.

If you don't think there's a work to reward ratio problem in HW, then that's on you. I'm pretty sure my sentiments have been echoed by plenty.

[MN_14]

It was exactly the same way in 2.x; the first few to hit the new top tier can make the big gil per synth, anyone after that has to settle for a mere 5-6 figure profit per synth.

I've made several pieces of Sky Pirate gear for myself and FC members, there is demand for the gear. The problem on my server is the people look at the MB and see ingredients cost 120k, NQ gear listed for 1M, HQ for 2M.

The main problem isn't really related with specialization, but rather is the fact that there still isn't much incentive at the moment to be gearing your crafters with i170 gear, which is a time consuming process. The biggest recent money makers have been Sky Pirate gear, but those are merely 2* recipes which can be crafted and HQed easily with melded i150 gear as long as the minimum craftsmanship/control requirements are met and the crafter has a decent pool of CP. It might have been better if the i185 gear had tougher quality/progress requirements, but they're the same as the i170/i180 gear (and you can easily start with very high initial quality).

One benefit to the specialist recipes is that there are finally viable ways of monetizing 2* crafts at least. Despite the fact that a crafter is locked out from certain recipes, it does provide a reward for those who have upgraded their gear to meet 2* requirements.

However, just like before, there isn't much benefit to having craftsmanship/control stats higher than the minimum requirements other than to have a slightly easier time crafting them. This would be kind of like if you fully melded your patrician's gear in ARR, crafted all of your AF gear, fully melded them, and then acquired your artisan's main hand tools only to discover that all of the new recipes released are level 50 2* items, which could be HQed easily with the melded patrician's gear you started with. There might be a decent reward for gearing in the future, but it isn't here yet.

[StouterTaru]

The main problem isn't really related with specialization, but rather is the fact that there still isn't much incentive at the moment to be gearing your crafters with i170 gear, which is a time consuming process.

And like you said, that has nothing to do with the new system, that's how it was throughout 2.x.

There are issues with the HW system, but none of them are "it costs too much" or "there's no money to be made at the top tier." The problems in HW crafting are:

• DoL and DoH lockout scrips being used to get mats for DoW/DoM gear. Horrible idea, good riddance and don't come back.
• Specialist skills are junk.
• The DoL favor grind gating crafting. Even after being nerfed twice, they just need to eliminate favors completely.

[Mindy_Macready]

And like you said, that has nothing to do with the new system, that's how it was throughout 2.x.

There are issues with the HW system, but none of them are "it costs too much" or "there's no money to be made at the top tier." The problems in HW crafting are:

• DoL and DoH lockout scrips being used to get mats for DoW/DoM gear. Horrible idea, good riddance and don't come back.
• Specialist skills are junk.
• The DoL favor grind gating crafting. Even after being nerfed twice, they just need to eliminate favors completely.

You've just listed points that point to a huge problem with work versus reward. Why did you feel the need to be argumentative about that phrasing when you're pointing out the exact same thing?

It's not just about gil, and that seems to be the point you're getting stuck at when reading my posts (not that you've really addressed any of my points to begin with).

[StouterTaru]

You've just listed points that point to a huge problem with work versus reward. Why did you feel the need to be argumentative about that phrasing when you're pointing out the exact same thing?

Because it's still the same way it was throughout 2.x.

You can buy your way to the top quickly; just like it was with sealant and artisan/lucis weapons.

You can work your way to the top by adding the gathering grind. It's slower and less costly, but requires more playtime to get there.

You can take your time to the top by just doing red crafter scrips. It's a lot slower, much less costly, requires much less playtime to get there, but more real time due to lockouts.

The gil reward was always relative to how fast you got there, which is an inverse of how much time and gil you spent. The world firsts got the big prize.

You keep saying there's no carrot, no reward, not enough reward for the effort. What was the carrot in 2.x for you? Making gear for yourself, or your friends, ruling the marketboard, the sense of accomplishment in reaching the top?