@SE: When are you reviving Secure 72 man secure?

[TheWaywardWind]

They need to rework the queue system if they were to bring them back, or else we'll just have the already dwindling PvP population split into 3 queue groups for each mode.

The queues needs to be no-GC, and first in first out style queue instead of lobbies. I really hate sitting in a dead lobby as someone else gets queues when they queued 10m after I did.

Removing the GC restriction still wouldn't fix this problem, though; you guys are looking at this too one-sidedly. Removing the GC restrictions is not a magical fix-it-all for PvP.

Would it help in reducing queue times? Absolutely.
Would it help in restoring life into the other two game modes? lolno.

They need to bring the modes up to date and find some means of letting each one cycle through each week. Even if they removed the GC restrictions, Secure and Slaughter would still be dead modes. This is what I'm getting at.

[PotatoTree]

Would it help in reducing queue times? Absolutely.
Would it help in restoring life into the other two game modes? lolno.

Reducing queue times would help immensely. The reason me and my buddies don't queue is because the queue times are just too long.

[TheWaywardWind]

Reducing queue times would help immensely. The reason me and my buddies don't queue is because the queue times are just too long.

It would not. There is no reason to say that people would queue for secure and slaughter just because they remove GC restriction. That is a big logical leap.

People would almost undoubtedly continue to queue for seize. 72 man secure and slaughter would continue to cease to exist.

[PotatoTree]

It would not. There is no reason to say that people would queue for secure and slaughter just because they remove GC restriction. That is a big logical leap.

People would almost undoubtedly continue to queue for seize. 72 man secure and slaughter would continue to cease to exist.

It would obviously need more help than just GC restriction removal. Without a GC restriction removal, you're splitting the player base into 9 lobbies (3 for each game mode) which is unsustainable and people will flock to the one that queues fastest. So unless you're doing something like a weekly/daily swap in what mode can be queued, then GC restrictions will not be the silver bullet. Otherwise, I think it is an essential first step.

On that note, they need to look at what other games are doing to promote play. For example, double XP weekends, or a weekend where if you win however many matches you get some minion reward or something.

Actually, what they really need is a PvP guy. They have a raid guy, a music guy, housing guy, even a minion group. Where's the PvP lead?

[UlricCraft]

Reducing queue times would help immensely. The reason me and my buddies don't queue is because the queue times are just too long.

This is massively important.

I only queue for Roulette now because the queues tend to be better.
If they included WD in the PVP roulette I'd be chuffed to bits.

The reason the queues for newer PVP modes are better is because of the mentality "It's a new mode, more people are going to try it out, therefore more games! I'll queue for that!"

Not because it's better or worse.

Best PVP mode:

WD > Slaughter > Secure > Capture the Flag

Best queues:

Capture the Flag > Slaughter > Secure > WD

[TheWaywardWind]

Not because it's better or worse.

Best PVP mode:

WD > Slaughter > Secure > Capture the Flag

That, of course, is your opinion. And yes, that is what I've been stating before, and why removing GC restrictions isn't going to magically revive Secure and Slaughter; that mindset is still present. There needs to be a way to breathe life into them, aside from trying to remove GC restrictions.

To make Secure popular again, I guess they would have to make it more appealing for daily/vanity/mount farmers. Perhaps add some sort of daily/weekly tournaments to PvP (ie claim a prize from a npc based on daily wins)?

So unless you're doing something like a weekly/daily swap in what mode can be queued

Actually, what they really need is a PvP guy. They have a raid guy, a music guy, housing guy, even a minion group. Where's the PvP lead?

Which is exactly what I stated that in the OP; it's not a perfect solution and unless Square purposely devotes more time and resources into it, PvP will never truly be fixed, but at least this would allow other players to enjoy each of the 72 man modes a week. Don't like Seize? Slaughter 72 man next week. Don't like that? Secure follows the next week. So on and so forth.

I don't really see a problem with this solution, honestly.

[Guesswhat]

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I don't think people believe removing GC restrictions will revive Secure/Slaughter. That is not the point I was making at least. GC restrictions amplifies Q times exponentially over time thus kills every mode long before new content is released. People want it gone for shorter queues, not to revive older modes. I would rather see SE focus on getting the queues down as fast as possible before they try and revive dead content. But if the solution helps revive the older modes that would be awesome.

Additionally, to keep a mode fresh over time, SE have to make new tweaks to them every now and then (which they don't). As long as queues sucks people will lose interest fast. Which mean SE have to constantly come up with new tweaks for every mode to keep them alive. If they "fix" the queues, keeping modes alive is much easier.

[Dotsusama]

Which is exactly what I stated that in the OP; it's not a perfect solution and unless Square purposely devotes more time and resources into it, PvP will never truly be fixed, but at least this would allow other players to enjoy each of the 72 man modes a week. Don't like Seize? Slaughter 72 man next week. Don't like that? Secure follows the next week. So on and so forth.

I don't really see a problem with this solution, honestly.

The problem is that if one mode is inherently more popular with players than another, except those who end up in there because of the Roulette, you're only going to see those players queue up during those time periods -- if they are able to play at all during that specific week. I'd hate to miss any sort of bonus on a particular game mode just because of a holiday, or the internet drops, or I have finals, or I'm on vacation...

[TheWaywardWind]

I'd hate to miss any sort of bonus on a particular game mode just because of a holiday, or the internet drops, or I have finals, or I'm on vacation...

We aren't talking a bonus of something that wouldn't normally be obtainable otherwise -- I'm talking a few extra esos or wolf marks - not something that you would never be able to obtain again. Even if you were gone, you'd still be able to obtain those by means, and if not, you weren't going to obtain them anyway, so it should make no difference to you.

Besides, "I'm not going to be online, so nobody else should have it," isn't exactly a fair argument in itself.

Other than that, that's not inherently true - there's nothing saying that some people just flat out won't PvP for a few weeks because they don't like a specific roulette.

[Dotsusama]

Besides, "I'm not going to be online, so nobody else should have it," isn't exactly a fair argument in itself.

Other than that, that's not inherently true - there's nothing saying that some people just flat out won't PvP for a few weeks because they don't like a specific roulette.

I wasn't saying that; I'm just saying I would miss out, and would probably come to resent the bonus if I did miss out. I'm also trying to say it wouldn't be enough of a motivator to get people to actually play that mode at all. They would just stick with what they like.

On the flip side, there is some resentment that PVP gives PVE rewards at all -- such as Esoterics. How many times have we been in a match and criticized a player for not contributing, only to get something back like "only here for the esos lol"? I don't think having people who are only in for the bonuses would make it very fun.