Are my mitigation numbers off ?

[Reynhart]

Shield presence
Effective tankbuster mitigation
Fluff mitigation
Group composition collaborated mitigation
Tankbuster mitigation amount performed in succession (T13 for example)
Mitigation in a short timeframe

Shield presence is not very high when it comes to average mitigation.
For tankbuster mitigation, you need frequent mitigation, duration is mostly irrelevant. And Inner Beast still has the shortest cooldown.

You can also mention I didn't include fight duration, since, if the fight is shorter, the tank and the raid will take less damage overall, and self healing skills.
As for group collabored mitigation, it really doesn't depend on the tank, so there's no reason it should affect their relative numbers.

But, even with all this, PLD is far from being the king of mitigation. And is, in fact, absolutely not, in several content.
If you look at the other side of the spectrum, WAR (and DRK) DPS is undoubtedly higher that PLD.

And it's even before we discuss if this mitigation is even useful...

[eagledorf]

Eh, your conclusion is correct. PLD's unacceptable lower DPS is being explained with an outright lie that it provides superior mitigation and/or utility, but you're exaggerating the situation for physical damage.

Assuming physical damage (because Halone alone makes PLD substantially weaker on magic damage) and only working with smooth damage (because a 30% Sheltron for a physical tank buster is huge and it gets impossible to try to make generalized comparisons) for a kite shield in the game right now you get about 25% block rate and a 22% block strength so that makes for an extra 5% mitigation all over while you lose only 25% of your parry chance so for a 20% parry rate you only lose 5% (or 1% total mitigation). That number might be exaggerated a bit, but at the same time it's going to go up with gear so it's probably close enough. The Awareness trait also means that you gain an extra 10s on Awareness. For a boss that crits 10% of the time, Awareness is just under 5% mitigation so that trait difference is another 0.4% or so for the auto-attack damage (plus you can't parry/block crits). You also do have Stoneskin, which cancels but is an extra shield when you can time it to go off.

On the other hand, you also need to factor in that WAR gets the Foresight trait and Parry from Wrath if you want to be complete. All told PLD does not appreciably outperform WAR on physical damage in terms of mitigation. For something like A2, PLD does do somewhat better due to receiving much more effective heals (5% in general, 18.5% with Convalescence, 25% for Lustrate/Tetragramaton), but as we know getting bigger heals is not as good as or comparable to mitigation so it's comparing apples to oranges.

What's really inexcusable is when you break it up to magic and physical. WAR will perform basically just as well as the specialized tanks for both while DRK will fall way behind on physical and PLD on magic. At the same time it provides the most important utility of the tanks and is the most ideal OT for DPS while PLD provides the lowest DPS for no reason whatsoever.

[Reynhart]

because a 30% Sheltron for a physical tank buster is huge

Keep in mind that if Sheltron works, it means that you could have blocked the hit anyway. It only made it more reliable.
And that using Sheltron technically replace your native "passive" mitigation.

[eagledorf]

Yeah, ok. So say you use a tower shield (the best shield for Sheltron). Assume it has a 15% block rate and a 30% block strength. On average your Sheltron increases mitigation by 26% so it's still an excellent skill.

Not trying to say there's no problem. WAR being just as good at physical, better at magic, and more DPS/utility than PLD is not balance no matter how Yoshida tries to cut it.

[Reynhart]

On average your Sheltron increases mitigation by 26% so it's still an excellent skill.

How do you obtain that number ?

If your shield blocks 30% of damage 15% of the time, it means the average mitigation is 4.5%

At most, Sheltron's "effective" duration is 3s (Less on multiple targets, but never more, since it only blocks one hit). It means that it mitigates 30%, of damage, at most, 10% of the overall time (Duration/Recast) for, at most, 3% average mitigation.
On the 90% remaining time, your basic block rate applies., so 90%*4.5% = 4.05%

So, by combining Sheltron and passive Block, you obtain 3%+4.05% = 7,05%.

The benefit of Shletron is not to mitigate a lot more, but mitigate more reliably.

[Freyyy]

How do you obtain that number ?

Because it increases your block rate from 15% to 100% for the hit you want to mitigate.

[CGMidlander]

How do you obtain that number ?

If your shield blocks 30% of damage 15% of the time, it means the average mitigation is 4.5%

At most, Sheltron's "effective" duration is 3s (Less on multiple targets, but never more, since it only blocks one hit). It means that it mitigates 30%, of damage, at most, 10% of the overall time (Duration/Recast) for, at most, 3% average mitigation.
On the 90% remaining time, your basic block rate applies., so 90%*4.5% = 4.05%

So, by combining Sheltron and passive Block, you obtain 3%+4.05% = 7,05%.

The benefit of Shletron is not to mitigate a lot more, but mitigate more reliably.

Using average mitigation is a flawed way of looking at how things work in practice, since the game is largely focused on mitigating (predictable) tank busters. If average mitigation mattered much, then parry wouldn't be regarded as such a crap stat. (Well, it'd still be bad because it scales poorly, but you know what I mean right?)

[Freyyy]

How do you obtain that number ?

If your shield blocks 30% of damage 15% of the time, it means the average mitigation is 4.5%

At most, Sheltron's "effective" duration is 3s (Less on multiple targets, but never more, since it only blocks one hit). It means that it mitigates 30%, of damage, at most, 10% of the overall time (Duration/Recast) for, at most, 3% average mitigation.
On the 90% remaining time, your basic block rate applies., so 90%*4.5% = 4.05%

So, by combining Sheltron and passive Block, you obtain 3%+4.05% = 7,05%.

The benefit of Shletron is not to mitigate a lot more, but mitigate more reliably.

He was speaking about when you toggle Sheltron to mitigate a specific attack. Even if you could also have blocked it WITHOUT Sheltron, using Sheltron still increases your average mitigation FOR THE INCOMING HIT by 26% with a 30% block strength shield in comparison to if you didn't use Sheltron.

Average sustained mitigation doesn't matter in this game.

[Reynhart]

Using average mitigation is a flawed way of looking at how things work in practice

Average sustained mitigation doesn't matter in this game.

Yes, you're right.
There is just a tiny little bit of a problem with this.
PLD most definitive tool is its shield...which provides...average...mitigation.

Not having a shield doesn't prevent you from having mitigation skills so, the fact that Bulwark or Sheltron use it is just cosmetic.

So again, one of the claimed definitive advantage of PLD is, at best, flawed, at least, a blatant lie.

Damn quota....
Answer to below:

Its boost to block rate is significant enough to be reliably useful when pulling a large amount of mobs in dungeons, for example.

Yes, it is.
But dungeons are hardly challenging. And for larger pulls, Bloodbath+Spam-Overpower or Blood Price+Spam-(DA)Abyssal Drain provides far more "mitigation" than Bulwark.
Without talking about the AoE enmity and damage gap...

[CGMidlander]

So again, one of the claimed definitive advantage of PLD is, at best, flawed, at least, a blatant lie.

I can't say I disagree with you on that.

But Bulwark does have its uses outside of boss fights. Its boost to block rate is significant enough to be reliably useful when pulling a large amount of mobs in dungeons, for example.