The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[Stanelis]

Keep fooling yourself thinking what makes savage hard is the dps checks lol.
And we all know how well that went in pvp, i know a few healers that stoped playing pvp since that.
Tanks do dps because they attack to hold aggro they shouldn't even be in this bag because it's just natural to them.

Want to talk about that amazing mechanic in AS4, which is cheesed and made irrelevant ?

[ShanaShirayuki]

To each there own but as I said before if all everyone cares about is dps then role as a dps. This whole thing about tanks and healers having to stance dance all the time is just stupid... Granted there are times when I tank and pop my dps stance while the boss is charging up and not hitting me. So i'll stance dance to help with the dps checks but other than that I'll stay in my tank stance.

Umm, wat?

You can't just say to each their own and then contradict yourself by saying what they do is stupid, makes you look like a jackass and just adds more credence to what you're arguing against. If they want to DPS as a healer or tank then let them, since it is as you said, to each their own.

Also, I feel this image is relevant to the thread :P

[Felis]

I don't think 3.2 will fix anything. They can't make major changes to how the combat system works until the next expansion at the earliest and I don't think Yoshida and team really want to change a thing. Along with the fact that if you take away Tank and Heal DPS, you'll have really long DF queues and have a hard time getting anyone to want to play those jobs anymore.

No combat changes are needed. Only more mechanics that keep tanks and healers on their toes (like Vault endboss for healers) so they don't have time to think about doing damage. And more AoE to teach DPS players to dodge.

Maybe an boss skill that reduce the HP of every party member down by 90%.
Or a boss that go into enrage if the tank don't build up a specific amount of enmity in a specific time.

[Hellboy-sa]

No combat changes are needed. Only more mechanics that keep tanks and healers on their toes (like Vault endboss for healers) so they don't have time to think about doing damage. And more AoE to teach DPS players to dodge.

Maybe an boss skill that reduce the HP of every party member down by 90%.
Or a boss that go into enrage if the tank don't build up a specific amount of enmity in a specific time.

but i can dps easily at vault

though it was hardest dungeon i came across in HW so far

[Miyu20]

I would love to see a SCH doing 1k DPS on Phase 1 of Thordan-EX. Would you possibly have any proof to back this?
....

Although I haven't received the clear that is only due to the fact that I haven't played with a team well enough as well as my lack of experience in the final phases of the fight. I don't know how to prove my DPS other then tell you I am i203(I think, def not above 205) and My rotation consists of keeping up all Dots including Shadow Flare and using Selene's Fey Light twice before Dissipating into my final 3 energy drains. So that's nine energy drains and dots up plus using food. Of course I cannot do this if WHM is not healing or if others screw up mechanocs.

If you'd like and play on Aether data centre, we could try and arrange a DF party if you'd like but I'm amazed how many people are quick to presume one is not skilled unless one has not cleared a fight. Maybe it's just one isn't in a group that's trying to clear the fight every day and ergo takes longer albeit in just as many attempts I'm sure.

Anyways, your DPS you play with do quite a lot of DPS if it floats around 1000-1200.... Considering that there is huge downtime in the fight especially at Ultimate End...

By the way, got to 12% today... If only we could have one hour...I still don't feel comfortable with that final phase enough to DPS in it especially considering other members of my team don't either.

[Eidolon]

Snippers

ah, forgive me - the statement of people maintaining over 1000-1200 was referring to the end of First phase, whcih is where we were talkign about numbers from. Mine maintaining around 1350-1550 is also only during the first phase.


Forgive me - I am not presuming you are not skilled. Just that it seemed a bit... cocky, to comment that you can do over 1k dps on a fight that you haven't cleared yet. My friend and I follow a mindset of learning to heal fights first, and then moving on to DPS'ing the fight over time as we master it. Sort of like how it sounds like you handle the last phase - you're not comfortable to DPS in it yet which is perfectly reasonable.

Towards the end of the fight, people tend to be between 800-1,050 DPS (I've ended on over 1k when I spoiled myself a little during mechanics and stuck to the closest ones but still performed them. Had a time where I had to get a tank-side Tower because he was too busy ignoring mechanics to pick a tower up.)

Congratulations on your 12% today. At that point its' really just a matter of cleaning up the last phase so no one dies. Make sure your DPS use LB3 right as soon as the phase starts (or when you immediately get it) so that by the time the tetheradd comes, you have LB2 and it might help push you over a little.

Honestly once we broke ourselves of having LB3 on standby 'in case people screwed up' we finally started clearing in week 1 with PUG's.

[Miyu20]

(Thank you for apologizing) Sorry for sounding cocky and understanding how I said things. It feels nice to be understood.

Wow. We definitely need more practice then because no DPS in my group DPSed over 800. Highest was 791 on the 12%. Granted there were a lot of deaths, even multiple deaths, healer LB3, multiple Raises... We actually got to the mini enrage (although I can't believe that is enrage) where the Knight tethers to Thordan. This is where we died as two DPS died and holy moly healers literally can't DPS that or else party dies to aoe damage. That's why we died because the one time I thought it safe to go full DPS mode, things started happening. I make lots of mistakes too though everyone does.

Thank you for the advice ^^ I can't wait to tell my group that and we'll see if my group won't have to rely on healer LB3 to cheese mechanics.

Do people forget this is an MMORPGame and to have fun, whatever way you want as long as it's not blatant trolling. I can understand it not being fun though if you really want to clear a certain fight as soon as it comes out but can't do it not due to lack of practice but lack of able teammates. That happens all the time.

[Twilite]

I don't think 3.2 will fix anything. They can't make major changes to how the combat system works until the next expansion at the earliest and I don't think Yoshida and team really want to change a thing. Along with the fact that if you take away Tank and Heal DPS, you'll have really long DF queues and have a hard time getting anyone to want to play those jobs anymore.

I wont stop tanking lol.

[Fevelle]

I wont stop tanking lol.

And I would go back to healing.

[Eidolon]

Snippers

Hahah, no problem. I can admit when I overstep my bounds a little bit or that it might be insulting - completely on me on that one.

Tether to Thordan can be handled with a Melee DPS LB + DPS. It's not an enrage - but it hurts like heck. It's % HP based just like the first time. Getting him down low enough is pivotal if you get there to survive it.



This is why you have an LB2 saved or used before he comes out, depending on where your DPS is at. You have to make a determination before he comes if you're gonna LB the second time or not based on DPS. There's an enrage a little bit after him where Thordan casts a long Ancient Quaga that deals over 90k damage - definitely a hard enrage.

But yea. I've not seen a Heal LB save the party - the weakness tends to jsut screw people over and they die soon after it.

Heh. Wish I could go with you on those runs - but I'm from another world over :P

I think a big thing is, different people have different definitions of fun. I get extremely burnt out when people are wiping to mechanics / arent' able on mechanics that I've already learned. Especially when they claim they know the fight / know the mechanics. I had one person who I tried to explain how the tether works to them, and they just insisted they -had- to have a shield up. People like that frustrate me as well.