Paladin: The Tank Mountain

[Seku]

No. A target heal and a self heal are two different things. Everyone has some responsibility for their own hp bar and this is especially true for tanks. If you'd like to make clemency a insta-cast skill, but it can only be used on the PLD casting it, I'd be fine with that from a "role" perspective.

Nah. Should stay as it is and be instant anyway. If WAR's can push out good DPS, nothing wrong with PLD getting two cures every now and again as OT and consistently as MT. The only thing that sould be looked at maybe is the fact that they are cured themselves a bit when they cure someone else with said spell

[winsock]

snip

Your logic doesnt make sense. You're saying: "WARs tank + dps; therefore, paladins should insta-heal and dps."

PLD currently "gets 2 cures every now and again." Im fine with that as well, just not as an instant heal. Here's the difference:
If a war pushes high dps, how does the war step on the toes of the DPS role? It doesnt.

The DPS role is mainly to keep high "damage per second" i.e. to maintain a rate. If a WAR maintains high DPS, it doesnt limit a dps player's ability to maintain high dps.

With instant heals, if PLD uses an insta-cast clemency as a save, it means the healer doesnt get to perform the save. In other words, the PLD would step on the healer's toes.

Not to mention, it would give a tanking class what would arguably be the best insta-heal in the game.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Not to mention, it would give a tanking class what would arguably be the best insta-heal in the game.

Let's not get crazy. Tetragrama-whatever is a high potency AoE heal on a fairly short CD. In terms of raw potency, that takes the title of "best insta-heal"

[Zeyn]

snip

I understand and respect your argument, but I disagree on your vision of healers.

A healer's job is to keep people healed. They counter the dmg the boss puts out, and they keep people alive. They counter damage from mechanics and heal after a big hit. If someone screws up, they save their life or raise them.

But none of that, in my mind, is an emergency heal. An emergency heal is when something goes wrong, and you need a heal RIGHT NOW or the raid wipes. It can be as easy as a healer having to move instead of heal the tank, or as bad as one healer going down and someone is about to die during the raise. If PLD's heal was fast, it would help the healer not take their job.

Tanks and healers work together. Tanks use cooldowns and healers ready heals for expected damage. You shouldn't expect the tank to do both, and that would be bad design. I see no reason to limit one class's abilities so that they literally can't help.

[Sareal]

You get at most 2 clemency for your MP bar before you run out of MP, and must spend a whole 30-45 seconds to rebuild your MP by spamming riot blade combos. Making this instant under various circumstances wouldn't break anything, and even then, you CANNOT have too much healing.

[Seku]

Your logic doesnt make sense. You're saying: "WARs tank + dps; therefore, paladins should insta-heal and dps."

PLD currently "gets 2 cures every now and again." Im fine with that as well, just not as an instant heal. Here's the difference:
If a war pushes high dps, how does the war step on the toes of the DPS role? It doesnt.

The DPS role is mainly to keep high "damage per second" i.e. to maintain a rate. If a WAR maintains high DPS, it doesnt limit a dps player's ability to maintain high dps.

With instant heals, if PLD uses an insta-cast clemency as a save, it means the healer doesnt get to perform the save. In other words, the PLD would step on the healer's toes.

Not to mention, it would give a tanking class what would arguably be the best insta-heal in the game.

Never said anything about PLD's dps.

War's fellcleave is among the highest potency Weapon skills in the game.

No healer is going to care about a PLD curing itself after a tank buster or a DPS that messed up and will actually probably thank them since it would ease up the difficulty on them. It would also push PLD in the direction that people think it's at, and that is freeing up the healer's to DPS.

[Bravely_Default]

Looking at the heal check on AS1, even instant clemencies are not going to make that much of a difference unless it was turned into an AOE. At 442 per riot blade if you were using just fast blade riot blade it would take 4 combos in conjunction with MP regen to have enough for one cast. To put it all together that is 20 SECONDS to get the mp needed for another cast and just fast blade and riot blade would be a HUGE gimp to your DPS. If you were doing the full FB>RB>GB combo that would be 7.5 seconds per 442 MP and would take 21.5 seconds for 1326 MP+an additional 3 seconds to get the MP needed from from MP regen. (which sits at 104 MP every 3 seconds) in the long run yes it would be even more useful for spot heals, but looking at it full statistic wise would still be a joke compared to what the healers would be putting out. You would be looking at over a million hp healed per healer while the paladin would probably be sitting at about 50-100k depending on how things go.
EDIT:Had to change a few numbers around after getting exact numbers in game. This is also looking at an OT paladin so sheltron is not in play.

[Brannigan]

Let's not get crazy. Tetragrama-whatever is a high potency AoE heal on a fairly short CD. In terms of raw potency, that takes the title of "best insta-heal"

Tetragrammaton is not AOE. You're thinking of Assize, which isn't that high potency (still good though)

[Kosmos992k]

You get at most 2 clemency for your MP bar before you run out of MP, and must spend a whole 30-45 seconds to rebuild your MP by spamming riot blade combos. Making this instant under various circumstances wouldn't break anything, and even then, you CANNOT have too much healing.

Sheltron....

[Februs]

Sheltron....

Don't get me wrong here, I don't have any particular desire to see clemency turned into an insta-cast, and I see your point... but no.

Shelltron does not restore anywhere near the amount of Mp required to cast Clemency, so if you're dry on Mp getting a Shelltron in will not help you, and you can only use shelltron once every 30 seconds. Even if Shelltron restored a sizable chunk of Mp instead of a tiny amount, it really isn't saving anyone's day. Not to mention the fact that if you're Off Tanking, you have no way of restoring that Mp using shelltron anyway because you're not blocking any physical hits (unless there happens to be a few adds running around that the dps were slow getting to).