HQing stuff

[Alisi]

If you have any moonstones from ixal dailies trade them in in mordhona for better crowned pie from talon. I got lots leveling my cul to 50 from 40. That could move your quality along faster

Oh, I'll look into it! I sold them but it's easy enough to get more. How much do they cost?

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Thanks! <333 I'll try it out. I don't think I'm vastly under geared. It's not HQ stuff but it's all the current level I'm at.

#1 Aha! I thought using it at the beginning when I had CZ up was best for CP. lol. ops! Stupid question: Is it, erm, bad to use tricks when Inno is up though?
#2 I was always told to use BB at 50%+ (better around 60%+). So 12% is okay? I rarely get it to 50% HQ. I'll try that with GS and Inno.
#3 I don't use MM for a 70/80 step thing. I use the 160 one. Sorry for not making that clear.
#4 Should I be getting the item as fast to complete before going for HQ or the other way around?
#5 Will do. Been using control foods. Ha.

@1: Yes, usually, don't take Tricks when Innov is active. You should normally only use Innov ONCE in a rotation, and that's somewhere near the end, spanning across the Byregot. Thus, any "Good" there in the Byregot phase should be made use of on the Byregot anyway! Put the Byregot ON the "Good" to gain 1.5x more quality (as long as you have Great Strides activated, because GS is 2x... even more important than a "good" condition)! That's way way wayyy better than taking 20 CP!
@2: It doesn't matter what % you have before the Byregot phase. You just need to do your best on building up a strong IQ stack. If you have only IQ6 or 7, your final Byregot's power will be quite limited. If you have IQ9 or above, then it's pretty save to HQ almost anything as long as you still have enough CP for a Byregot's finsher phase.
@3: Ok good! I misunderstood you! XD
@4: What do you mean by this? Can you please explain this?
@5: Control food isn't bad, but I found CP food to be just better, provided you know how to utilize that CP.... e.g. if you're 1 touch away from your Byregot, and You have enough CP for the finsher phase already, you might as well use Basic / Standard / Advanced Touch on the last touch to securely get 1 extra IQ stack. Each IQ stack is a gigantic difference in the end.

[Alisi]

@4: What do you mean by this? Can you please explain this?

I mean, using CS2 to get the thing up to the point where one more would finish it and then go back and try to get the HQ up or the other way around.

[MN_14]

I mean, using CS2 to get the thing up to the point where one more would finish it and then go back and try to get the HQ up or the other way around.

That's the standard order if you use any RNG based ability to take care of progress (progress first, then quality). If your method of handling progress is RNG free, it technically doesn't matter the order they're done unless ingenuity is being used to buff both quality and progress.

I'd avoid the overuse of CS2 for progress, however. It's RNG free, but if used too liberally, it will waste a ton of durability.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

I mean, using CS2 to get the thing up to the point where one more would finish it and then go back and try to get the HQ up or the other way around.

That will totally depend on the situation.

Example 1:
If you plan to use 2x CZ in your rotation, you need to do 2 things - (i) immediately re-activate CZ when the first CZ falls off, so that you have more steps on the 2nd CZ to get back the invested CP, (ii) delay your Byregot phase as much as possible to buy more steps to recover the CP from your 2nd CZ. Thus, in this case, naked CS II's can become "fillers" and be very, very useful! When the first CZ is only 1 or 2 steps away from falling off, using CS II to help finish off the CZ, then activating 2nd CZ can be a very nice choice. Alternatively, before using MM2, you have like 20 durab left... Activating SH II there for a Hasty would not be ideal. Thus, using a naked CS II can bring down durab to 10 before you use MM2. Alternatively, after using MM2, maybe you still have a lot of steps before you can get back the invested CP from the 2nd CZ, so using some CS II first could be a very nice choice to grab back the necessary CP for the final Byregot phase... and then finally wrap up with a single CS II.

Example 2:
Let's say you were in a Waste Not phase - you just did SH II, WN, and is about to push 4x Hasty Touches. Then an EXCELLENT suddenly popped up! Of course you can't miss it! Use Precise Touch immediately! But now the next step is on Poor condition. So to avoid it, you can now use CS II on progress instead!

Ultimately, you must know exactly how many CS II you need to complete your item. And in both examples above, Ingen2 was NOT planned to be used at all. If Ingen2 was to be used to help progress, there will less flexibility with naked CS II's.

But like I said before, if it takes more than 4 CS II to complete the item, then you should not be using naked CS II anymore. Take MN_14's advice, and use something else... Muscle Memory, Rapid Syn, Name+Brand of elements, or CS II under Ingen2 (which will cluster your CS II at the end) etc etc

[Ksenia]

-snip-

My problem isn't that I don't know what I'm doing. My problem is, I know exactly what I'm doing. I was making Basi Whetstones 2 nights ago. I made 30. Couldn't fail them if I wanted to. They could and did hit me with 4 poor conditions on Adv T 3 out of 4 time. I made 30 Basi. I got 50 Good Proc. 4 were useful. The other 46 were there to heckle my rotation.

IQ
SH II
GS
Innovation
Adv T
GS
Adv T
SH II
BB
SC II

46 of 50 Goods, inert.
3 of 4 Excellent, Detrimental.

Crafting in this game is designed to bust your balls.

Spent an hr and a half making all my own parts for a set of 58 Healing gloves. HQ as many parts as I can (sound familiar OP?)
5 times I made parts before the Gloves HQ'ed.

The crafting is for Macro builders and bot gatherers. If you enjoy it, glad to hear it. I don't.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

My problem isn't that I don't know what I'm doing. My problem is, I know exactly what I'm doing. I was making Basi Whetstones 2 nights ago. I made 30. Couldn't fail them if I wanted to. They could and did hit me with 4 poor conditions on Adv T 3 out of 4 time. I made 30 Basi. I got 50 Good Proc. 4 were useful. The other 46 were there to heckle my rotation.

IQ
SH II
GS
Innovation
Adv T
GS
Adv T
SH II
BB
SC II

46 of 50 Goods, inert.
3 of 4 Excellent, Detrimental.

Crafting in this game is designed to bust your balls.

Spent an hr and a half making all my own parts for a set of 58 Healing gloves. HQ as many parts as I can (sound familiar OP?)
5 times I made parts before the Gloves HQ'ed.

The crafting is for Macro builders and bot gatherers. If you enjoy it, glad to hear it. I don't.

Having 4 Poor conditions means you did have 4 Excellent conditions right before those Poors! If those Poors landed on your Adv Touches, that means the Excellents were landed on the Great Strides. That means you were NOT supposed to use Great Strides at all, but to use Adv Touch directly on the Excellent. Each Excellent provide 4x Quality. That's way more than a Great Strides can provide.

Similarly, if you're only able to make use of 4 Good procs out of 50, you're really not doing it right. Most crafters can make use of over 80% of the Good procs, either for more CP or to gain that 1.5 quality using a touch, or to use Precise Touch to gain that additional IQ stack.

You don't let luck to happen and wish those Good or Excellent land on your touches. You are supposed to modify your rotation according to when they proc! I strongly advice you to take a look at this thread:
http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/advice...he-spot.15347/

Btw, in your rotation up there,
(1) you did not add a GS before the Byregot. As a rule of thumb, GS is ALWAYS used with Byregot. If you lack CP, you would rather move one of your early GS to the back for the Byregot. You can get a lot more power that way.
(2) You'd rather have the Innovation covering your Byregot instead of the earlier touches, unless you have extra CP to spare.
(3) You only reached IQ3 when you used Byregot. Byregot's power on IQ3 is only 100% + 40% efficiency. That's lower than an Advanced Touch. You might as well use Advanced Touch instead of Byregot, unless you lack CP.
(4) You used SH II, but what you really needed was only SH. It could have saved a total of 6 CP.
And if you're lacking CP for any of the above, you should be using CZ on first step anyway.

It's OK not knowing what you're doing. But not knowing what you're doing while thinking you know it (and giving inaccurate advice to others) is rather dangerous. If someone who doesn't know how to control a train thinks she/he can do it, the result is a detrimental train-wreck. And advising others how to wreck a train doesn't mean trains were designed to be wrecked.

[Nekotee]

I will follow and seconded caimie statement
Not because I might be in her fanbase... Not at all ._. Promise

But because I do agree

I use her guide to begin crafting and adapt her method/rotation accordingly for me and my stuff/melding
I enjoyed it and still find some interressing fact in her current rotation.

Even if i'm full 60, with crafting experience.

...

As for my own advice, I personnally do not rely on innovation, might be great but i learned to craft without it.
Always be with a cp food (like Caimie said... Stone soup from gold saucer cost nothing and help a lot)

My basic rotation (from RR)
Let's say for a 35 dura that is 2-shot with CSII

IQ > CS2 > HT x2 > Manip > SH2 > WN > HT x4 > Manip > SH2 > HT x3 > GS > BB > CS2

Lots of hasty touch and many space for ToT
But lots of rng XD (BB cannot fail)

...

Ksenia saying that crafting is macro and bot is a bit insulting...
If you do it and do not enjoy it, fine do it in your corner but do not spread your "hate" on people who love it
I love crafting, love the rng, love to yell/insult/complain/cry over my failed craft

Yeah some people like pain *look away*

[Katlyna]

There are a number of issues that you're not doing it quite right, and there are a number of things which you have not optimized yet:

Huggles to the awesome Camie for giving the awesome full detailed answer. She's 100% spot on. And Ksenia answer confused me too? I'm still not sure what to make out of reading it.

[Katlyna]

My problem isn't that I don't know what I'm doing. My problem is, I know exactly what I'm doing. I was making Basi Whetstones 2 nights ago. I made 30. Couldn't fail them if I wanted to. They could and did hit me with 4 poor conditions on Adv T 3 out of 4 time. I made 30 Basi. I got 50 Good Proc. 4 were useful. The other 46 were there to heckle my rotation.

Oh haha yes now I know why you made your funny comment Ksenia!!! You are 100% right a lazy macro can indeed still NQ something which you would have HQed manually. Poor condition for the loss!!! </3