3.1 MSQ Reaction [SPOILERS]

[Belhi]

I think its partially Minfillia being the source of our busywork, and that people want a lasting consequence of the 2.55 cutscenes. All of Uldah went up in revolt, our allies were facing an army, and the dev team is trying to retcon and downplay a good chunk of it (a lot of the consequences were either after the event(thancred), or self inflicted(Y'shtola)).

At this rate Raubhan's severed arm will come back, with a few scars put on and in some cutscene where it delivers us from peril.

I think there are lasting consequences of the events of 2.55 but they just don't include deaths. To be honest, I didn't think any of the Scions were dead at the end of 2.55. I thought Nanamo was the only dead one. Sure they could kill of Minfilia but it would be a pretty lame way of ending the character, particularly since all the other scions we see facing deadly situations and Minfilia just runs off into the sewers on her own.

Personally Nanamo is the death I think was wasted. While I like the character, by far her death had the biggest implications and the greatest impact storywise. That would have shaken both Ul'dah and the Alliance to the core and forced several Ul'dah characters and institutions to evolve and step up. It would have also forced real development with Ul'dah's own story which has been tied up with the Monetarists since 2.0.

Simply put, after all the rest, Minfilia's death off screen would be pointless impact wise and wasteful character story wise.

Minfilia is unpopular for plenty of reasons which are perfectly justified. I just cant help myself correcting people when I see them stretching the facts on the character to justify dislike of her when it simply can be summed up by the fact she doesn't do much we actively see and she, like the rest of the scions, hasn't been developed much. The other scions get some forgiveness because we see them being active in the field. The thing with a manager is generally you only notice the results when things go wrong so their contribution can often be undervalued and from a narrative perspective its hard to clearly define value to the role for the action based player.

[Twailaith]

The thing with a manager is generally you only notice the results when things go wrong so their contribution can often be undervalued and from a narrative perspective its hard to clearly define value to the role for the action based player.

You know what would have been awesome? Minfilia stepping up and growing a backbone when Theledji drags us in bound like a SM toy and starts spewing forth accusations about us killing the Sultana...

For someone who's supposed to lead a badass group whose main expertise reads "Hunt down and kill the mind-raping pagan gods" she's surprisingly not-badass herself...

Livia, Elidibus, Leviathan's Sahagin, Nabriales, the Crystal Braves... You can only save the damsel in distress so many times before it becomes a chore.

[Fenral]

You know what would have been awesome? Minfilia stepping up and growing a backbone when Theledji drags us in bound like a SM toy and starts spewing forth accusations about us killing the Sultana...

The Scions had no jurisdiction, and pretty much everything we do requires the consent of the governing powers involved. My understanding is that we were actually operating on the assumption that the city states wouldn't try to interfere, so didn't actually have any real power to handle a situation like that.

I think if there's any lesson to be learned from Ul'dah, it's that Minfilia (or Alphinaud on her behalf) needs to negotiate for actual extralegal status, and the ability to enforce it. Sure, hoping stuff doesn't go wrong was actually working out for us for a while, but that really shouldn't and can't be a requirement at all times.

[Yuyuka3]

May I ask where you can find those biographies? I don't remember seeing them anywhere but I would love to read them.

The bio of the heavensward can be found here.
They are short, but quite interesting.
Sorry to butt in like this, but since nobody answered so far... o.o

Ser Grinnaux the Bull (lit. “the bloodthirsty”)
As a trueborn son of House Dzemael, Grinnaux became known as one of his House’s most talented knights. He boasts unparalleled skill in the arts of war, but his history is peppered with conflicts resulting from his disagreeable personality. Nevertheless, Archbishop Thordan VII appointed Ser Grinnaux to the Heavens’ Ward based on combat capability alone — reasoning that if the man were tempered to obey instructions, his unruly behavior would not pose an issue.

The part where it's implied he might have been tempered in bold.

Very interesting. Actually, with a few other people, I was discussing how Midgarsormr's whole opinion seems to have changed between 2.55 and 3.0 (at least the end of it). He seems to solidly be on Nidhogg's side when he first meets us, and only later does he agree that Nidhogg needs to be put down. I actually don't quite know what to make of it given the initial disdain that he shows for all of Ishgard. Of course, I am referring to Midgarsormr's japanese dialogue since his english one is lol unreliable.

I think this is related to him seeing how far gone and insane his son is now, and Aymeric's honesty in wanting to end this battle. Our interaction with Hraelsvelgrs brood in Annex Trine might have helped, too, but since we also killed an awful lot of dragons at the same time I'm not quite sure about this myself.

Oh I agree. On most of his arguments, Gaius pretty much looked good on paper. I was ready to sign up for the Garlean army myself tbh by the end of 2.0 lol. But it's when you look at his actions that you're like "but you're still a megalomaniac murderer". Haha, I wonder if it can really be called honor or if it's something else though. Btw, I'm a big fan of the rogues' guild, I was very pleased (and also very amused) to find out that my boy Thancred used to have connections with them.

Well, I guess you have a point. He's still my favorite villainous character so far.
The Rouge quests are great! Loved all of them, especially the one with V'kebbe and a certain sandwitch

If you're referring to his reaction to the very first use of Ultima when Lahabrea took over, after some thought, I've come to think that maybe his reaction was more of "omg you just destroyed my base" and less him being horrified about the actual destructive power of it. I could be wrong, of course, but it amuses me to think of it that way.

In 1.0, Gaius actually opposed Naels Project Meteor and even helped the players trying to prevent the plan to go through by giving them information. One of the reasons I said he generally tries to minimize (civilian) casualties; though I have to admit that having being his command over the Eorzean conquest taken away in favour of Nael probably played a part in it, too.

The whole thing is like an itch I can't scratch. I want to know so much more than we're told. I do remember that Elidibus tells us that Lahabrea is special even among their kind. I always took that to mean he was especially strong, but who knows.

Yeah, it's quite frustrating how little we know about the Ascians so far. Yoshi promissed to lift some of their secrets in Heavensward, but...
But, yeah, this particular part was brought up in... 2.1, I think? Anyway, it's one of foundations of the 'multiple worlds' theory going around.

[Cilia]

Just gonna put a stop to the Minfilia debate by stating that, at the root of it, the main reason so many people dislike her is because she violates one of the core tenets of storytelling: show, don't tell. Yes, she manages and leads and researches and all that, but we never actually see her do any of that. The only thing we ever see her do is stand in the Solar and give us orders (she does step out on occasion, but still contributes little to the mission if we're on one), while we're constantly told how valuable and important she is. Meanwhile the camera is constantly pointed at her... it gets irritating. Really, really irritating.

Don't know why we're talking about Gaius and Minfilia when this is supposed to be about 3.1... how did we get here?

[Twailaith]

The Scions had no jurisdiction, and pretty much everything we do requires the consent of the governing powers involved. My understanding is that we were actually operating on the assumption that the city states wouldn't try to interfere, so didn't actually have any real power to handle a situation like that.

Juristiction has nothing to do with it. The Sultana has been assassinated, the lawful sovereign of Ul'dah is dead and the douche we know is behind it is parading in with the goddamn Warrior of Light (Who at this point is well into living legend status) bound in chains with the brass blades and Crystal Braves following in on eighter side like loyal lapdogs...


Does anyone (except badass rogue bro Thancred) make the leap of logic that "Uh oh, Ul'dah has been overtaken by hostiles and traitors. A fair trial ain't gonna happen, and if we sit here we're all gonna die...Time to grab our fellow Scion and bust out of here before Teledji has time to call in more guards."

Yet what happens? Raubahn goes berserk, cuts the smug smurf down and loses an arm to Ilberd while everyone else stands around and stares. He's the one who frees you and tells you to run, something that should have been a gut reaction from your comrades who've fought alongsside you multiple times.


It should have been an epic battle to take down (but fail to kill) the traitor Ilbred alongside Raubahn and fight our way to find Alphinaud... Then, a fighting retreat where the player and the scions join the Flame General against an endless horde of guards, not pre-rendered cutscenes where everything is done for you. Merlwyb and Senna would have stood between us and the oncoming army and invoked diplomatic immunity to stall them while we run, because they're savvy leaders of their respective nations, not useless figurepieces who can do nothing but stand and frown.

There'd be no cliche secret passages, but a goddamn run from the palace and into the streets of Ul'dah, guards at our heels, some people believing the slander and attacking us while others are willing to take up arms to defend the Warrior of Light. Make it into utter chaos, a full on battlefield, a goddamn civil war in the making that the monetarist'll have to burn a ridiculous sum of money and favours to quench.

Afterwards, the player who returns will find brass blades and assorted hired mercenaries in every corner of Uldah. NPCs will speak of the ever-growing tension and the civil unrest that bubbles under the surface. The Ala Mhigan immigrants flock en-masse under the now independent Crystal Braves and their stolen and Monetarist-sponsored resources, preparing for a glorious re-taking of their leader's beloved home city.

Oh, and Nanamo's death sticks... But that goes withot saying.

Basically, make people act rather than watch, make it seem realistic and let it have consequences.

...

Wow, this has absolutely nothing to do with my original point, does it?

[Tenkuu]

It should have been an epic battle to take down (but fail to kill) the traitor Ilbred alongside Raubahn and fight our way to find Alphinaud... Then, a fighting retreat where the player and the scions join the Flame General against an endless horde of guards, not pre-rendered cutscenes where everything is done for you. Merlwyb and Senna would have stood between us and the oncoming army and invoked diplomatic immunity to stall them while we run, because they're savvy leaders of their respective nations, not useless figurepieces who can do nothing but stand and frown.

The nation leaders should indeed have evoked some kind of immunity for us, but the rest of what you say goes against what the Warrior of Light stands for. Like the other Scions, we are not interested in melodrama or glory, we just want to defeat our enemies and protect the realm.

There'd be no cliche secret passages, but a goddamn run from the palace and into the streets of Ul'dah, guards at our heels, some people believing the slander and attacking us while others are willing to take up arms to defend the Warrior of Light. Make it into utter chaos, a full on battlefield, a goddamn civil war in the making that the monetarist'll have to burn a ridiculous sum of money and favours to quench.

Actually, it did end up in a battle anyway, and I'm sure we and the Scions knew precisely that it would turn out that way and that a civil war, and the casualties it would have brought, was exactly what we were trying to avoid. Clearing our names involved not having them sullied by unnecessary massacre, and it isn't just our pursuers that would have died, but also innocents in the streets. That, more than actual inability to fight our way out normally, was probably the main reason that Thancred suggested a secret passageway. We were not trying to draw any attention onto ourselves.

Afterwards, the player who returns will find brass blades and assorted hired mercenaries in every corner of Uldah. NPCs will speak of the ever-growing tension and the civil unrest that bubbles under the surface. The Ala Mhigan immigrants flock en-masse under the now independent Crystal Braves and their stolen and Monetarist-sponsored resources, preparing for a glorious re-taking of their leader's beloved home city.

This was already how it was if you returned to Ul'dah and spoke to several NPCs. There was an increased military presence in the streets. As for the Ala Mhigans, if they wanted to be taken seriously, they would not associate themselves with such a mess. The proof is there too: Yda and Papalymo were both aided by the Ala Mhigans who otherwise ignored the whole thing and instead focused on a real enemy: the Garleans.

Basically, make people act rather than watch, make it seem realistic and let it have consequences.

It was an all-around bad situation, and anything you could have done might reasonably have made you look bad. Also, you're not only protecting your own image with your actions, but also the other Scions', since you are essentially their representative. The consequences as it were were already bad enough, we really did not need to add innocent deaths to the mix, least of all in association with the Scions.

[Tenkuu]

Just gonna put a stop to the Minfilia debate by stating that, at the root of it, the main reason so many people dislike her is because she violates one of the core tenets of storytelling: show, don't tell. Yes, she manages and leads and researches and all that, but we never actually see her do any of that. The only thing we ever see her do is stand in the Solar and give us orders (she does step out on occasion, but still contributes little to the mission if we're on one), while we're constantly told how valuable and important she is. Meanwhile the camera is constantly pointed at her... it gets irritating. Really, really irritating.

Don't know why we're talking about Gaius and Minfilia when this is supposed to be about 3.1... how did we get here?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking about two of the greatest characters this game has. There's no need to put an end to anything, people will talk about what they want, and move on when they're longer interested by the topic. Forcing the issue won't accomplish anything.

[Tenkuu]

The bio of the heavensward can be found here.
They are short, but quite interesting.
Sorry to butt in like this, but since nobody answered so far... o.o

No problem! Anyone can jump in if they have answers or just something to add.

The part where it's implied he might have been tempered in bold.

Thanks! The website has honestly had some loading issues for me, so I haven't gone on it much.

I think this is related to him seeing how far gone and insane his son is now, and Aymeric's honesty in wanting to end this battle. Our interaction with Hraelsvelgrs brood in Annex Trine might have helped, too, but since we also killed an awful lot of dragons at the same time I'm not quite sure about this myself.

Well, I've said so before, but I can still understand and sympathize with Nidhogg much more than with the Ishgardians. They just really have not impressed me, at all, except for those like Aymeric, Haurchefant and Edmont. There's a whole culture of hypocrisy and learned helplessness that is rather grating to me in that country.

Well, I guess you have a point. He's still my favorite villainous character so far.
The Rouge quests are great! Loved all of them, especially the one with V'kebbe and a certain sandwitch

Compared with some other classes' really tedious last few quests, Rogue really had some interesting ones even when they were a bit difficult.

In 1.0, Gaius actually opposed Naels Project Meteor and even helped the players trying to prevent the plan to go through by giving them information. One of the reasons I said he generally tries to minimize (civilian) casualties; though I have to admit that having being his command over the Eorzean conquest taken away in favour of Nael probably played a part in it, too.

Yeah but see, Gaius wants to minimize casualties pretty much only because he wants non-Garleans to rule over, and he essentially says as much in 1.0. So I rather have trouble seeing anything he does as being out of the goodness of his heart.

Yeah, it's quite frustrating how little we know about the Ascians so far. Yoshi promissed to lift some of their secrets in Heavensward, but...
But, yeah, this particular part was brought up in... 2.1, I think? Anyway, it's one of foundations of the 'multiple worlds' theory going around.

Well, specifics about Lahabrea and Elidibus have never been provided, and whether or not they keep Lahabrea dead, it would still be nice to know those things.

[CyrilLucifer]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking about two of the greatest characters this game has. There's no need to put an end to anything, people will talk about what they want, and move on when they're longer interested by the topic. Forcing the issue won't accomplish anything.

Oh, but I must disagree.

Lahabrea is clearly the greatest character this game has.