Thread: 3.1 MSQ Reaction [SPOILERS]

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Assuming he can't grant the echo, and merely fostered it in the Sahagin, Are we sure that you need the echo to uh... deiform? If not, only the Archbishop would need the Echo to maintain his free will, the Heaven's guard may have been Tempered to their primal forms, bound by loyalty to their liege, Thordan.

Given their blind loyalty to Thordan, I don't think it much matters either way. Even if they were not tempered by Thordan, they may as well be.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Ish ... At the very least, Minfilia and the Sahagin elder jointly assume Elidibus was responsible.
The sahagin's dying words are even, "Curse you Emissary, you said I would be immortal!"

I don't think those words mean anything specific though. Had Elidibus just revealed to him the details of how the Echo he already had worked, the result would have still been the same, just as what happened to Lahabrea when Thordan the Primal was around.

That I'm not sure about at all. I'm just going by the in-game characters' assumptions for now (which could prove to be flawed). Neither the Sahagin elder nor Thordan and his knights show any sign of being touched like Ysayle. They seem to have the same core ability to break down barriers to merge with deiforms, but don't have the weird side effects. I have no idea what to make of it and am just working with what I have until I have something better, lol.

By "touched", I'm assuming you mean Blessed? We were talking about, either in this thread or another that I also follow, the fact that Hydaelyn's Blessed all have at least one Crystal and can acquire more if they're strong enough, like in our case where we got all 6. I definitely don't see someone like Thordan having the Blessing. Then again, the Echo seems to be the only thing that you need to have to be able to become a Primal. We know that you can have the Echo without having the Blessing, and that you can't have the Blessing without having the Echo. It's probably within the realm of possibility that Thordan and his knights would have the Echo. Otherwise, it would be strange to think of how they came to be Primals, and I don't think the power of Nidhogg's eye is enough of a reason.

If it's Elidibus granting this power, it doesn't seem to be quite the same. Some theorize that it's because of a difference in Echo between divine loyalties, but I'm waiting until the top layer of theory is proven or refuted before I build a house of cards that doesn't actually have much in it. For all we know, the Echo isn't required to merge man and deiform - it just seems to be based on what Elidibus, Lahabrea, and Nabriales said.

Not quite the same in the sense that it's weaker because it's not coming from either Zodiark or Hydaelyn? Actually, rather than just being an assumption we make based on what Lahabrea said, it's rather that he and and Igeyorhm both told *and* showed us that the Echo was what allowed them to do it by merging right before our very eyes. Ysayle *was* Blessed but it doesn't seem to be Hydaelyn's intent for her Blessed to become Primals, as far as I can tell.

The little biographies of the Heavens' Ward hint that at the very least they tempered Grinnaux.
I don't want to jump to too many conclusions until we know base ones are good, though.

May I ask where you can find those biographies? I don't remember seeing them anywhere but I would love to read them.

I put that together from three pieces. First, Estinien tells Iceheart that Nidhogg has always followed the Eye, but now completely ignores him in favor of Ishgard. Then you've got the fact that Nidhogg rallied ... just everyone. Midgardsormr himself - the father of dragons, king of kings - rose to join in the song. It was much more serious than any of his past marches, or so we've been led to believe. And finally - there's an optional piece of dialogue with Estinien. It's his theory, lol.

Sounds like he's accusing Nidhogg of knowing what's up, being too afraid to come himself, and yet amassing a historic siege.
Hraesvelgr said that the war was always for their spirits as of a thousand years ago. Ask Midgardsormr last week? "Ishgard shall burn."
Makes sense as a starter theory. /shrug

Very interesting. Actually, with a few other people, I was discussing how Midgarsormr's whole opinion seems to have changed between 2.55 and 3.0 (at least the end of it). He seems to solidly be on Nidhogg's side when he first meets us, and only later does he agree that Nidhogg needs to be put down. I actually don't quite know what to make of it given the initial disdain that he shows for all of Ishgard. Of course, I am referring to Midgarsormr's japanese dialogue since his english one is lol unreliable.

I'm not sure if anyone expected that the mythical Keeper of the Lake - Guardian of the Falls - created by the gods themselves - would actually show up.
Erik even says that the event proved the gods were true in the eyes of many Eorzeans.

Sorry, I'm relatively new to these forums, who's Erik?

I agree with most of the Gaius points, so I feel it necessary to clarify one thing: I'm not trying to paint him as sympathetic, just better than his peers. He's not devoid of what makes the Garleans horrible, he just has more of what makes them "eh, maybe not entirely wrong". When I try to demonstrate that by pointing to an "honor" that others seem to lack, I'm not talking about, like, King Arthur's honor. I'm talking about... like... mafia honor. Mafias tend to do a whole lot of horrible stuff, but those that keep to the code are generally favorable compared to those who have none. Compare to piracy vs. rogues' guild.

Oh I agree. On most of his arguments, Gaius pretty much looked good on paper. I was ready to sign up for the Garlean army myself tbh by the end of 2.0 lol. But it's when you look at his actions that you're like "but you're still a megalomaniac murderer". Haha, I wonder if it can really be called honor or if it's something else though. Btw, I'm a big fan of the rogues' guild, I was very pleased (and also very amused) to find out that my boy Thancred used to have connections with them.

At the very least, the ends didn't justify the means when the annihilation of the primals meant the annihilation of every living thing in Eorzea. He wanted the glory of raising the Imperial standard over a land that had been "saved" and purged of its tainted influences. He looked Nael in the face and called him depraved (despite being powerless to do anything about it and subsequently being mocked for it).

If you're referring to his reaction to the very first use of Ultima when Lahabrea took over, after some thought, I've come to think that maybe his reaction was more of "omg you just destroyed my base" and less him being horrified about the actual destructive power of it. I could be wrong, of course, but it amuses me to think of it that way.

I can tell you that (it is said) Lahabrea and Elidibus are of our world and the other Ascians are not. I can tell you that (it is said) Lahabrea and Elidibus are "original" and the other Ascians are "transmigrations." Can't tell you what that means, though. I'm guessing they "transmigrated" from "the original genesis" before everything they knew was "shattered", and Lahabrea and Elidibus came from the subsequent mortal world, originally, but "partook of Zodiark's power" and fight to see "what was shattered made whole". Those boundaries are so vague that they could mean anything. To highlight how little we know about it, the Ascians could be from the "Age of the Gods" that was destroyed when Zodiark came to power as the thirteenth, youngest, and most powerful of them due to alignment with Darkness. Alternatively, literally all of that could be wrong. We don't know much.

The whole thing is like an itch I can't scratch. I want to know so much more than we're told. I do remember that Elidibus tells us that Lahabrea is special even among their kind. I always took that to mean he was especially strong, but who knows.

As is the case with my loyalty to the Crystal, I'm not giving up on Urianger just yet. He was Louisoix's most trusted pupil. The other Scions laughed at how naturally he played an enigmatic villain simply because he'd "spent more time with old books than modern people". A guy like him, you don't just let the chance to hear out the Emissary, seemingly aligned with the Ascians, who hasn't been on the mortal plain in thousands of years, pass you by.

I've never played 1.0, only read up a *lot* about it and watched cutscenes, especially of Ul'dah because I love Thancred and I find the whole Ul'dah plot amazing. I kind of vaguely remember what you're referring to, but if you have an actual quote or cutscene video about it, I'd love to view it again to confirm it. I don't think Urianger ever gives you reason to doubt him anyway, he's too much of a deadpan straightforward guy for that.

Originally Posted by Balipu

The Warriors of Darkness are interesting. Exact same looks Derplander and friends had during the ARR cinematic, a flashback evoking the intro cutscene we had in ARR. Yeah they are definitely the original warriors of light.
So everyone except for Minfilia is confirmed alive? Now I really hope she is dead. Someone has to die.
Really happy Matoya and Hilda are back. And Vidofnir. Looks like old NPC's are not forgotten.
So the WoDs 4 maned Ravana? Damn.
Those legs definitely belong to Alisae. Too bad Darklander noticed her. Wanna bet 3.2 begins with a linkpearl message from her? "Thank the twelve I reached you all. I have discovered something terrible. ElidiMMMMPPPHHH"

I wouldn't be upset at all if minfillia died. She is a totally forgettable character with little in the way to make her likable. She sends us to do her bidding and she has absolutely no personality or characteristics that distinguish her among the masses.

Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I wouldn't be upset at all if minfillia died. She is a totally forgettable character with little in the way to make her likable. She sends us to do her bidding and she has absolutely no personality or characteristics that distinguish her among the masses.

- Echo user who established the Path of the Twelve in a climate where supernatural powers like the Echo were seen with mistrust by the population.
- Daughter of an Ala Mhigan who was a double agent pretending to work for the Garleans while feeding the Ala Mhigan Resistance intel.
- Hunted by the Garlean Intelligence agency since the age of 12. Has lived a false identity since then.
- Had successfully run the Scions for 5 years after the 7th umbral calamity before we even turned up.

I think she is alright and has more story to her than any of the other scions had at that point. I think she suffered from the same thing the scions did being a lack of time spent developing the character and fleshing her out. More so actually since she was stuck in a management role and so rarely appeared on the field.

Im hoping that like the other scions they are using this whole thing to flesh her out. She currently has one of the more interesting backstories among the scions.

Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Why do people always underrate Minfilia? She's a leader and manager. Basically she's aware of almost everything, and information has always been power.

She doesn't fight or do shiny backflips but that doesn't mean she's useless.

Well we already explained in lots of comments why we unrate minfilia ( Thread: "if you would kill one of the Scions" ). On this case no tecnicly she wasnt aware of all and his information didnt help us expect : "here is another primal, go and kill him while i wait here"