What Makes a Paladin? An Essay on Paladin Identity

[Shurrikhan]

My only problem with these is that they wouldn't really do much of anything to give Paladins a solid identity, but would just alter the current status quo to be more aligned with other tanks. In essence, these would be a band-aid on a wound that is far too deep and far too fundamental to the job for that to work.

None of the tanks dramatically differ from each other even as is. If this can bring PLD up to par without *further* sacrificing identity (though given that PLD is our first real tank, should it be said instead that WAR and DRK are the ones actually lacking?), and while increasing enjoyability, I guess that's good enough for me. There are other, more original, things that I could have thrown into the mix there but such would come at risk of its existing gameplay. (For just one of any number of examples, say... if Shield Oath blocks built up resource by which to spam Swipe or for a Shield Bash nuke hit and allowed further supportive actions (especially as OT) while generally giving the MT a sort of reflective dmg bonus to serve as AoE dps, while Sword Oath built resource allowing you to accelerate through combos and quicken casts and gave your attacks a cleave component... it would be interesting, and unique, but very different from what we have, and likely less smooth while no more effective than certain simpler changes.) That's not to say something more unique wouldn't work; that's simply why I didn't bother with such for now. The only thing further I feel I should mess with, if I was allowed to buff WAR and DRK slightly to compensate (mostly via Reprisal and ToB [in Job Adjustments in signature]), would be Divine Veil.

[Fevelle]

I'd play the hell out of PLD if they change it into a Cecil-like Paladin or FFI Knight.

[Jpec07]

None of the tanks dramatically differ from each other even as is.

I strongly beg to differ (to the point where I'm not sure how you can actually say this).

Dark Knight gameplay requires very careful attention payed to your MP, and has the unique ability to amplify its toolkit with Dark Arts (which is why MP matters). The storyline for Dark Knights also has an extremely unique feel, dealing with personal and emotional turmoil with strong themes and memorable characters. And those themes tie into the job mechanics nicely.

Warrior gameplay is also very different, in that it revolves around dealing huge amounts of damage and healing yourself. Playing a Warrior is a rush, and makes you feel rather unstoppable (because a Warrior can dish out as good as they get). They also have their stacking Parry/Crit buff that makes you feel berserk. The story also has a unique feel--while I feel the GLD story is better than the MRD story, I feel like the Warrior story fixes it by showing a Warrior who went too far, and teaching you how to walk the line between harnessing your Inner Beast and giving in to it (I haven't done 50-60 yet, but thought 30-50 was pretty good on its own).

Paladin gameplay is entirely generic. There is nothing unique about it. And the story, as the essay points out, is a complete farce.

[PogueX]

The paladin identity in FF is that the paladins are the sultansworn...who protect the sultana, but because the game doesn't want to pigeonhole you into serving Ul'duh you are a "freelance paladin" which is really bizarre story and although you aren't managing MP like a DRK, you still have to manage your defensive CD's so that your healer is banging his head against the wall trying to heal you, so i feel their is something there but because paladins are meat shields and not damage focused class people don't like them. I love the class...when i am doing a trial, i am the least concern of the healers cause of my defense.

Likewise playing an alt healer i have become VERY frustrated at the DRK's who use darkside constantly and their HP goes down faster then a noob with squishy gear. I have quit quite a few dungeons because of reckless DRK's...rarely do you see healers leaving dungeons because of a paladin. To me the DRK is like the anime/manga character who is so consume with power that it eventually consumes him

But it would really be cool if we paladins were more like the magitek knights of FF lore who are able to cast offensive spells as well as tank

[Freyyy]

although you aren't managing MP like a DRK, you still have to manage your defensive CD's so that your healer is banging his head against the wall trying to heal you

Managing defensive CD is a thing that all 3 tanks are doing and it's far from being a core aspect of the gameplay, especially on PLD where it is so easy.

because paladins are meat shields and not damage focused class people don't like them. I love the class...when i am doing a trial, i am the least concern of the healers cause of my defense.

It's not that people don't like PLD. The job is just bad and should be buffed. Bottom line. And you're lying to yourself if you really think that PLD is THAT much tankier than the other tanks, because it's not true at all. In most cases, WAR has better mitigation, and in magic-heavy fights (Like the current raids), DRK has way better mitigation. PLD is only better at physical mitigation and by a small margin.

Likewise playing an alt healer i have become VERY frustrated at the DRK's who use darkside constantly and their HP goes down faster then a noob with squishy gear. I have quit quite a few dungeons because of reckless DRK's...rarely do you see healers leaving dungeons because of a paladin

Darkside doesn't hinder your tankiness at all. I think that you don't know what you're talking about at all here. All you got was bad DRKs that didn't use their defensive CDs, but their lack of tankiness does absolutely not come from Darkside. On the contrary, a DRK who isn't using Darkside is missing 2 amazing defensive CDs, and a lot of self-healing. A DRK without Darkside is let's say like a PLD without Fight or Flight, Sheltron and Bulwark.

[Malicewolf]

But it would really be cool if we paladins were more like the magitek knights of FF lore who are able to cast offensive spells as well as tank

Honestly, I never really even thought about a PLD using offensive magic. When I think PLD, I think sword and shield with heavy armor white magic. And white magic revolves mainly around healing and support. Holy would be the only thing I'd think of as offensive (kinda). And I will say, I'm sad that white magic/healing magic doesn't damage undead. But anywho, I wouldn't mind offensive based magic moves. Would allow a change in identity without losing dps (well... maybe), but I'd be really curious as to what kind of offensive magic you were thinking. Personally, I'm good with just heal and support.

[Shurrikhan]

I strongly beg to differ (to the point where I'm not sure how you can actually say this).

Dark Knight gameplay requires very careful attention payed to your MP, and has the unique ability to amplify its toolkit with Dark Arts (which is why MP matters). The storyline for Dark Knights also has an extremely unique feel, dealing with personal and emotional turmoil with strong themes and memorable characters. And those themes tie into the job mechanics nicely.

Warrior gameplay is also very different, in that it revolves around dealing huge amounts of damage and healing yourself. Playing a Warrior is a rush, and makes you feel rather unstoppable (because a Warrior can dish out as good as they get). They also have their stacking Parry/Crit buff that makes you feel berserk. The story also has a unique feel--while I feel the GLD story is better than the MRD story, I feel like the Warrior story fixes it by showing a Warrior who went too far, and teaching you how to walk the line between harnessing your Inner Beast and giving in to it (I haven't done 50-60 yet, but thought 30-50 was pretty good on its own).

Paladin gameplay is entirely generic. There is nothing unique about it. And the story, as the essay points out, is a complete farce.

Sorry, I should have been more specific here. They are structurally homogenous, not homogenous in gameplay. In my opinion they differ at best as much as Ninja and Dragoon (well, DRK further from PLD/WAR than current WAR is from PLD or vice-versa). That's still totally debatable as to whether that's a significant difference. I would say it isn't; they are limited to the same structural systems (rigid combos, 1 ws debuff, stance(s), and each depends on rigid CDs, oftentimes with those CDs nearly identical). Difference in actual mitigation is due more to attack timings than to the job (apart from PLD/DRK niching). Self-healing outside of CDed abilities isn't much in any of the jobs (not to say I would delay a small pull just because my healer's afk for a moment when I have full mana/Shadewalker/Equilibrium for PLD/DRK/WAR respectively). The design so far seems favors parity in certain core areas (especially the progression tank's core, mitigation).

I play all three tanks equally (I just happen to be a little bit more fond of the sword and shield aesthetic), so yes, I know their differences. I just don't see them as being especially different from a structural standpoint or in any way that could allow any significant rebalance of central parities. That's why I call the mostly the same (especially when on the subject of non-core factors includeable for parity). They play different, but they're all doing roughly the same thing. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it. I don't personally feel one way or the other about it; I just like when a job can feel in the zone, as per your DRK and WAR examples. However, I don't feel that PLD is void of the potential for that kind of fun from the toolset it has now (if modified). I like pushing my dps, be it by RA or especially GB, even if DoT maintenance itself is done to death, and I feel that RA/GB do this uniquely enough from DRK and WAR rotational nukes (DA-SE and BB) to feel differently minded when planning out my rotations or reacting to situations. The changes I suggested, I felt, could finally push PLD up to where it feels like it enters a zone of its own. Of course, if, after further thought/simultation, it seems not to be able to do enough, then it's back to the drawing board for me. I have the bad habit of hitting the math first, to ensure balance while trying to intensify whatever avenues for the job seem readily visible for their fun, and only afterwards thinking through situation after situation to evaluate the overall 'fun' of the modified job.

Edit: side-note, but... I honestly didn't care much for the WAR storyline either, but that could be simply because it made just enough sense that I could build my own wants for it and then be dissappointed by them while the PLD story didn't even make enough sense (or, more importantly, connections to its job) to do that... DRK storyline felt solid, however, especially the ends of each segment, 45-50 and 58-60, and I cannot say that about most of the jobs (1 quest to go for BLM, 4 for MCH, lots for AST, rest done). As much complaints as I'd ever have with job skills will likely never equal my disappointment in the quests given to explain, immerse us in, or detail out the feel or lore of our jobs. But hey, at least I can grab my ability and move on, right? v.v

Edit2: I mean the WAR 50-60, sry. Prepare to be a bit disappointed, is all I can say, since you mentioned that you haven't done it yet.

[Brannigan]

I'd play the hell out of PLD if they change it into a Cecil-like Paladin or FFI Knight.

✔Attack
✔Cover
✔White

Cure
Sight
Libra
Protect
Cura
Teleport
Shell
Esuna
Raise

We're not too far off with the exception of Esuna. Cecil's just OP and hits really damn hard.

[Reynhart]

✔Attack
✔Cover
✔White

We're not too far off with the exception of Esuna. Cecil's just OP and hits really damn hard.

We're really far from being able to Cover frequently, though. I'd like to be able to use a Cover-like skill as often as DRG can use one of its jump.

And yes, Cecil hits like a truck...And I fully understand why we can't have that

[Shurrikhan]

We're really far from being able to Cover frequently, though. I'd like to be able to use a Cover-like skill as often as DRG can use one of its jump.

And yes, Cecil hits like a truck...And I fully understand why we can't have that

3.5 five covers per minute?! ...That'd be pretty cool.

Though at that point we might as merge it with something like WoW's Vigilance (CD-less buff you can toss onto people to allow you to free-taunt anyone attempting to attack them). Which I also wouldn't especially mind.

Personal favorite would still just be most attacks being interceptable and PLD having the best toolset for doing so (Shield moves giving it the largest interceptive hitbox, etc.)