How a Meridianum and Praetoreum run should be!

[Azazua_azura]

Watching all the cutscenes is over 20 minutes, longer than the whole run itself takes, in cm. It's even longer in prae. I wouldn't have kicked you, but I wouldn't have waited for you either. That's a lot of time to demand from 7 strangers.

As has been said a million times in a million other copy/pasted topics, those 2 dungeons are designed exceptionally awful.

Seeing as how you wanted a specific type of run though, you should've gone to your fc/friends/pf first instead of last. Plus if you are gonna ask 7 strangers to do things your way, "told them to shove it" is not how to go about it.

The only players who consider it bad design are WoW player, as the game has next to no cs. And due to WoW being a big game, a good majority of the player base came from WoW.

Those who play FF11 or similar, are used to CS in dungeons, the CS take really no time to sit through, and are part of the dungeon. When you que up, you agree to do the dungeon.

And it is a bit annoying to speak on the behalf of others, speak only for yourself.

[Violyre]

On a side-note, I do believe that SE should split up these things. There are still a lot of minor CS that could be used to begin, and stick longer cutscenes at the ends. It would kill some immersion, yes (offhand thinking about the transitions at Nero > Gaius > Ultima Weapon x2 > Lahabrea) but there's no reason they couldn't show a cutscene as you leave, and then put you in a little room like they did for Ifrit and Garuda for setting purposes and put everything up until the transition to fight before it

Example meaning, after you beat Nero, you get his cutscene when you leave. It deposits you into a single room modeled after that room. You click the elevator outside of the instance, and maybe make the Gaius cutscene cut before he makes you that offer, and show that part at the start of the fight.

And for the love of the Twelve, make it four person.

[Azazua_azura]

Its kinda stupid people keep saying CM and Prae layout was bad. I ran through it a few times, and i don't think the CS and stuff is all the long, it is a story dungeon. There is no loot. The CS are part of the dungeon, and when you que up for story mode R you agree to do those dungeons. The roulette bonuses apart from expert, are part of the mentor system in the game. You que up to help fresh players, and get rewarded for time spent. To assume you are the majority in any party, is a bit rude as well as speaking on the behalf of others.

Remember this is a final fantasy game known for its story line cs, and Yoshida stated FF14 is a final fantasy first. The only reason they changed, is too many WoW players complained. FF11 had cs in dungeons, and people had no issues letting people watch them.

What is also annoying is this whole "my time" stuff from WoW, if you don't have enough time to do something, don't. Don't treat other players poorly, puffing your chest like your time is more importent. No one person in the groups time is more importent, the 7 other players time isn't more importent then the 8ths players. Players should communicate at the start and agree on a how to run the dungeon.

Personally speaking, a first timer should be allowed to do these dungeons in full, seeing the CS and paticipating in the fights, if we treat new playes poorly they may not stick with the game. I've personally quit mmo due to poor community, Aion being 1, DCUO being another.

Also PF is a hard option to do with these dungeons, it can take hours before 1 person is willing to join up, and that is much more of a time waster then anything. I did these 2 dungeons recently, I tried to PF it, no luck. I asked my FC but most were heading to bed(it was late). My only option was to DF it, I qu'red on my War and did the best I could to see the CS and participate. I was lucky enough that 1 person waited up so i could follow the group. I got a few commi after the run as well.

As for Prae. it was a hot mess. My group was in eso gear, and ra,mming forwrd too fast, no one waited for me so i had to follow best i could remembering the layout. I even got lost alot. And due to the speed of my group, I missed large chunks of CS, at this point though i didn't care, I have beat these dungeon 5 times already. It still sucked cuz I love prae, I love the set up to fighting ultrima, fighting ultima, and fighting lahabra.

Instead of doing the "my time" arguement, take in consideration of the full group, not the 1 vs 7, but the 8 of 8. It does suck to be the 1 newbie and have 7 other players ruin your gaming experience over the sake of token/hr. Which if you consider that it does come off as selfish.


And, a bit of a tid bit, just because something can be complated fast, doesn't mean it should. And people here like to mix could and should up forcing their personal views on others.

A big help that I've been saying for weeks now is, the English community needs to really learn to communicate at the start of dungeons, express why their there and come to an agreement. Assuming and forcing your views wastes the groups time and enjoyment, and it was because of this stuff as a fresh tank, is why i switched to a JP server.

[szalkerous]

The only players who consider it bad design are WoW player, as the game has next to no cs.

...

Those who play FF11 or similar, are used to CS in dungeons, the CS take really no time to sit through, and are part of the dungeon. When you que up, you agree to do the dungeon.

And it is a bit annoying to speak on the behalf of others, speak only for yourself.

First off, I can tell you're one of the white knights that force the group to stop and wait for people to watch these in full... so everything I say will be ignored, because you want to impose communism on everyone else running the same dungeon... but I have nothing better to do during maintenance, so here goes:

The last 3 or 4 MMO's I've played, being Rift, GW2, Aion, DDO.... none of those contained massive cutscenes throughout the dungeons that doubled the run time. So I have no idea why you think that only WOW players find this completely unnecessary.

(continued)

[szalkerous]

Also, when we queue up for a roulette, the last thing we are thinking is, "Wouldn't it be great to spend half of my play time watching the same cutscenes every single day?" ...so really like someone else said, if we separated those players from the newbies, the newbies would be queuing for hours on end.

If the cutscenes are so damn important to people, I don't see why you are running them in a PUG. Go find a nice, friendly, casual free company that's willing to do private FC queues of story content. Otherwise accept that the VAST majority of people in those dungeons are not interested in making a production out of what should be a 20m run at most (and I've done both of those in a decent group within 10-12 minutes).

The honest truth is very rarely do we see the obnoxious white knight attitude in those groups, and most of them will speed run with or without the new player skipping. They still get credit at the end, and they're able to progress in the MSQ.

[KeluBehemoth]

I remember back only a month after A Realm Reborn came out, when I started the game. People were expecting you to skip it and watch it in the inn.

I tell people (the few times I do it) to watch the cut scenes. Sometimes I see some people actually say "I'm skipping them and watching them in the Inn" I say "Its Final Fantasy. Take your God Damned finger off the skip button and watch the cutscene!"

I don't wait for boss fights though. Thats where I draw the line. Even if half the group is new. Most of it can be 4 manned while waiting for them to finish the scenes.

[PotatoTree]

I think SE should just make it a 1-2 person dungeon and with maybe a chocobo or something. That way newer players can experience it at their leisure. Make the monsters a bit weaker or something so it can be solo'd by a new player. I feel bad every time a new player gets dicked in meran/prae and then they think the rest of the game is like this since the "last boss" experience was so shit, without knowing the game actually goes on for much more content.

Plus it makes more sense lore wise. I mean you have 8 ppl riding magitek mounts in prae? Wtf?

[Iz_Lemon]

On a side-note, I do believe that SE should split up these things. There are still a lot of minor CS that could be used to begin, and stick longer cutscenes at the ends. It would kill some immersion, yes (offhand thinking about the transitions at Nero > Gaius > Ultima Weapon x2 > Lahabrea) but there's no reason they couldn't show a cutscene as you leave, and then put you in a little room like they did for Ifrit and Garuda for setting purposes and put everything up until the transition to fight before it

snip

And for the love of the Twelve, make it four person.

For what it's worth, everything you've said here is exactly what they've done for future content to prevent this from happening. It was a horrendously bad design decision in this sort of game, and this has been recognised by square enix.

In regards to your reply to my previous post, firstly, at any gear levels they would need a healer, they can't survive without one. Gear item levels don't trivialise boss encounters THAT much.

But yeah... I'm not saying people in your party were't rude to you either. It sounds like they were. Either side demanding things be done a certain way rather than having a civilised discussion is not on. For the record, the possibility of having to watch the cutscenes is why I don't set foot in main scenario roulette, and I think if you do, you should at the bare minimum be prepared to have a rational discussion about it. It's been so long since these players got to level 50 they forget that for most players this will be their very first exposure to the level 50 content.

[KeluBehemoth]

I think SE should just make it a 1-2 person dungeon and with maybe a chocobo or something. That way newer players can experience it at their leisure. Make the monsters a bit weaker or something so it can be solo'd by a new player. I feel bad every time a new player gets dicked in meran/prae and then they think the rest of the game is like this since the "last boss" experience was so shit, without knowing the game actually goes on for much more content.

Plus it makes more sense lore wise. I mean you have 8 ppl riding magitek mounts in prae? Wtf?

Apparently back in 1.0 you could take NPCs with you into Dungeons to help fight. I've heard rumors they may be working on this again. Which would be great for doing what you want at your own pace.

[Inferiae]

Watching all the cutscenes is over 20 minutes, longer than the whole run itself takes, in cm. It's even longer in prae. I wouldn't have kicked you, but I wouldn't have waited for you either. That's a lot of time to demand from 7 strangers.

As has been said a million times in a million other copy/pasted topics, those 2 dungeons are designed exceptionally awful.

Seeing as how you wanted a specific type of run though, you should've gone to your fc/friends/pf first instead of last. Plus if you are gonna ask 7 strangers to do things your way, "told them to shove it" is not how to go about it.

Here's the thing: these two dungeons even have their own roulette. If you're signing up for MSQ Roulette, you're willing to take the risk of waiting for all cutscenes.


Don't get me wrong, I'm a speed runner. Whenever I'm tanking, I never stop in between pulls unless requested to do so. I skipped all my cutscenes when running dungeons. I just don't think it's fair for the new players to have their experience ruined because of veterans who have done that dungeon a thousand times and still queue up for it somehow.