Suggestion - Paladin Identity and new stance?

[winsock]

One skill doesn't make a role.

PLD is in the tank role. If you want to let pally fill the healer role, do you have any plans of submitting a post arguing that WHMs should be able to tank?

How would PLD having the ability to raise in battle break anything?

Because PLD can survive things all other rezzers can't.

So it seems that there is some synergy there between PLD and healing.

And there is 'some'. PLD, first and foremost, is a tank don't forget, and needs to remain a tank for the sake of balance. You're asking for a class that could fill a tank and healer role while DPSing. How is what you're asking for remotely balanced? I mean, your description is basically "buff all the things".

Im curious as to where you draw the line. What, in your opinion, would be the smallest buff or buff(s) you could give PLD, to make it overpowered? And why?

[Kosmos992k]

PLD is in the tank role. If you want to let pally fill the healer role, do you have any plans of submitting a post arguing that WHMs should be able to tank?

Give them their shields back. Something I have argued for consistently. Also, you must have a pretty low view of White Mage if you think that the stop gap healing abilities I outlined, come close to being a real healer. The idea is not to make the Paladin a viable healer, but to give them enough healing ability to survive a fallen healer, or any situation where the healer(s) need help. Really, you need to actually read and consider what I wrote because it in no way gives Paladin the healing ability of a White Mage.

Because PLD can survive things all other rezzers can't.

*That* makes it overpowered? Really? How? Explain the point of cross classing Raise if it can't be used in any meaningful manner.

And there is 'some'. PLD, first and foremost, is a tank don't forget, and needs to remain a tank for the sake of balance. You're asking for a class that could fill a tank and healer role while DPSing. How is what you're asking for remotely balanced? I mean, your description is basically "buff all the things".

The proposed Sword oath includes 2 debuffs to blocking and reduced enmity. The suggested Shield Oath is unchanged from the current situation and the healing stance nerfs the crap out of the Auto Attack along with including the 2 debuffs to blocking. How is that buff everything?

I

m curious as to where you draw the line. What, in your opinion, would be the smallest buff or buff(s) you could give PLD, to make it overpowered? And why?

I already indicated the buffs I think would work, and why. It's just a pity that you somehow ignored the balancing factors in the suggested stances, and see the modest buffs and modest 'stop gap' healing stance as overpowered.

I'm really not seeing being able to raise in battle as OP, there is literally no reason to give us the skill without being able to use it in battle. Summoner, Scholar and white mage can all do it, is giving Summoner access to battle raise over powered? No, not in the least,and all of those classes can swift cast. A battle raise with a 6s casting time is hardly overpowered, but it is at least useful enough to merit being a cross class skill. I'm struggling to understand why you oppose the kinds of modifications I suggested, they are relatively mild and more than anything else they give purpose to cross classing CNJ for Paladin. As it stands, Raise is a pointless waste of space, as is cure. Protect is already being cast by at least two other players as is stoneskin.

How am I asking for a tank that can DPS while healing? The stance described debuffs the base auto attack, so your auto attack would be extremely low in the suggested stance, not only that but there are defensive debuffs also,. Honestly if you are going to oppose an idea, at least make sure you are being accurate.

[Reynhart]

PLD is in the tank role. If you want to let pally fill the healer role, do you have any plans of submitting a post arguing that WHMs should be able to tank?

I see you haven't changed...why do you still oppose tank and healers...
Still strange that you have absolutely no issue with healers being able to do some DPS. Do you have any plans submitting a post to remove Cleric Stance, since healers aren't supposed to fill the DPS role ?

Because PLD can survive things all other rezzers can't.

And PLD supposedly take far more hits and is far more proned to die that SMNs...

And there is 'some'. PLD, first and foremost, is a tank don't forget, and needs to remain a tank for the sake of balance.

Again, WHM, AST and SCH are healers, yet they can do some pretty high DPS, especially SCH on multiple targets. And WAR can do insane DPS...for a tank. And, I'm pretty sure Kosmos is not asking PLD to still be able to do high DPS while healing, since, you know, he suggested a DPS loss...

Why exactly would you want to make PLD essentially a hybrid job? In essence, what this does is turn FFXIV PLD into Holy Paladins from WoW.

Do you really have that little knowledge of Final Fantasy to suggest that WoW is where the healing PLD emerged ?

In these threads, we see most people fine with WAR design.
WAR can tank extremely well, can DPS, at least, fairly well compared to other DPS, and can heal himself not bad.
So, why is it overpowered if a PLD could tank tank extremely well, heal fairly well compared to other healers, and DPS not bad ?

The reason Paladins cant have raise is because they can out-survive almost anything (All tanks can, but Hallowed makes it look easy.) Lets set the stage for a game breaker:

Super Hard hitting Aoe is coming, example Ravana EX Bloody Fuller. DPS messed up with 5 Butterflies. (OUCH)
Everyone is dead but the PLD and the other PLD.
Casts Iron Tempest. Raise Healer. Knockback does nothing. Healer Gets up. Laughing Rose (White AOE): A PLD Covers/Hallows or Suicides to get rid of Vulnerability stacks as the Healer LB3's. Everyone gets back up, MP restored and all Debuffs removed and move on to Prey....

That is a nice description...yet I still don't see what is the problem ? You can't take this situation, where everybody messed up royally, as a template for why would PLD be "game breaking", especially when 99,99% of those Ravana (or others) fights, won't go that way. It's not like party will decide to use that kind of strat...