Diadem Gear > (Alex Norm / Savage, Crafting, PVP, VA, Extreme primals, tome) gear?

[rappa]

Snip

My static cleared a4s 9 weeks ago. One hour inside diadem nm and we changed a scholar chess with crit and a 210 dex ring with crit better than eso ring. Effort? zero, nothing, just killing crabs, gorilas and rex's. It's a mindless grind.


SE is doing bad if they let diadem pink gear with good rolls can be better than gordian or eso.

I am not disagree with letting non-raiders get coat and twines from Void Ark or huntings. They will get the same gear as a Raider but 3 months after. I am disappointed when 2 months of effort inside Alex savage to clear it, is not rewarded when in an hour or a few, spamming 3-4 buttons you could get better gear.

How can you promote Alex Savage clears if you are gifting gears without effort?

Diadem remember me "timeless island" in WoW. Alters and absent players could join to the game, obtaining a lower tier of items, let them to raid LFR. Then, they have the choice to keep that gear or try to get a better tier or the best tier.

what do you get in FFXIV? Same items as raiders or also betters. You didn't kill Living liquid, you didn't kill "manipulator". Just you facerolled NM and Star monsters.

I want to know. What is the point to raid 3.2 if in 3.3 we would know Diadem v2 could have the same gear or better? Take 3 months break, back to 3.3 and LF diadem "i want free gear".

[Kosmos992k]

I want to know. What is the point to raid 3.2 if in 3.3 we would know Diadem v2 could have the same gear or better? Take 3 months break, back to 3.3 and LF diadem "i want free gear".

I'm sorry, how does any of that invalidate your achievement of clearing A4S? Your post comes across as someone who is basically upset that non-raiders and less capable players will get similar gear to yours by other means. Isn't that something that's essentially a feature of vertical progression?

But aside from that, why is this even still a discussion to be had, this has happened every other patch since 2.1.

I don't know if it's your intention (I doubt that it is), but complaining about this now just comes across as being a bit elitist about high end gear and a bit condescending towards non-raiders.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

My static cleared a4s 9 weeks ago. One hour inside diadem nm and we changed a scholar chess with crit and a 210 dex ring with crit better than eso ring. Effort? zero, nothing, just killing crabs, gorilas and rex's. It's a mindless grind.


SE is doing bad if they let diadem pink gear with good rolls can be better than gordian or eso.

Eh, even the twines coming from Void Ark and Hunts is kinda shitty. No need to deal with annoying Livid Liquid, just wait a few months and you can get it with less time invested and less effort. I could've just unsubbed and come back to easier to obtain twines instead of banging my head against the wall with my whole static on A3 for quite a while. There is no incentive to do Savage now, not even for bragging rights as some say as the sole reason people do Savage (hint: it's not the main reason, else we would've seen more interest in Coil Savage). Now that we are onto AS4, I see not much reason to do it if we can just wait for the relic, heh.

[Kosmos992k]

Eh, even the twines coming from Void Ark and Hunts is kinda shitty. No need to deal with annoying Livid Liquid, just wait a few months and you can get it with less time invested and less effort. I could've just unsubbed and come back to easier to obtain twines instead of banging my head against the wall with my whole static on A3 for quite a while. There is no incentive to do Savage now, not even for bragging rights as some say as the sole reason people do Savage (hint: it's not the main reason, else we would've seen more interest in Coil Savage).

Isn't there an achievement + title, and a mount or minion that is exclusive to Savage Alex? Wouldn't those be the incentive you speak of?

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Isn't there an achievement + title, and a mount or minion that is exclusive to Savage Alex? Wouldn't those be the incentive you speak of?

Mmmm, I don't think there's an achivement/title atm for beating it as far as I know. I also don't care about the mount, not my type, heh.

[rappa]

Eh, even the twines coming from Void Ark and Hunts is kinda shitty. No need to deal with annoying Livid Liquid, just wait a few months and you can get it with less time invested and less effort. I could've just unsubbed and come back to easier to obtain twines instead of banging my head against the wall with my whole static on A3 for quite a while. There is no incentive to do Savage now, not even for bragging rights as some say as the sole reason people do Savage (hint: it's not the main reason, else we would've seen more interest in Coil Savage). Now that we are onto AS4, I see not much reason to do it if we can just wait for the relic, heh.

With Coat and twines you get "same" gear as a raider. A raider with gordian pieces have better gear than non-raiders.
The point is, you don't need to raid, Diadem could be better than esoterics gear and gordian gear.

The fact, Weapons like heavens bow in thordan EXT is better than Esoteric weapon.

[Fyce]

My static cleared a4s 9 weeks ago. One hour inside diadem nm and we changed a scholar chess with crit and a 210 dex ring with crit better than eso ring. Effort? zero, nothing, just killing crabs, gorilas and rex's. It's a mindless grind.

So, in short terms, you want some gear to be the best for two consecutive patches. You want raid gear to stay the best for half a year before having to replace it with... new raid gear.

You should start to wrap your mind around the idea that raid gear is the best only for the current patch before having alternatives or better replacements the next one, or you'll be disappointed every time an odd numbered patch comes out.

How can you promote Alex Savage clears if you are gifting gears without effort?

Not everyone cares about big numbers on their shiny armor. Some people do it for the feeling of achievement and the battle itself.
It's sad that I have to explain that to a raider.

[rappa]

So, in short terms, you want some gear to be the best for two consecutive patches. You want raid gear to stay the best for half a year before having to replace it with... new raid gear.

You should start to wrap your mind around the idea that raid gear is the best only for the current patch before having alternatives or better replacements the next one, or you'll be disappointed every time an odd numbered patch comes out.

2.0 - 2.1
Mixed Myth and Allagan > full myth gear

2.2 - 2.3
Mixed Soldiery and High allagan gear > full Soldiery gear

2.4 - 2.5
Mixed Dreadwyrm and Poetics gear > full poetics gear

3.0 - 3.1
Full Diadem gear with good rolls and RNG > Mixed Esoterics and Gordian > full Esoterics.

Now sum the effort to get allagan gear - high allagan gear - dreamwyrn gear and Gordian gear against faceroll NM and stars monsters.
One type of gear need you to improve, to be a good player, the other one, just a ship, RNG and good rolls.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

So, in short terms, you want some gear to be the best for two consecutive patches. You want raid gear to stay the best for half a year before having to replace it with... new raid gear.

You should start to wrap your mind around the idea that raid gear is the best only for the current patch before having alternatives or better replacements the next one, or you'll be disappointed every time an odd numbered patch comes out.

Not everyone cares about big numbers on their shiny armor. Some people do it for the feeling of achievement and the battle itself.
It's sad that I have to explain that to a raider.

The ratio for effort:reward is not balanced. AS3 is a kick in the nuts and takes so much time investment, coordination, effort and can demoralize statics easily. If a fight is going to be this hard, at least the reward should feel worth of all that sweat. Making it worthless on the next patch after a few months is not the way to make it feel like it was worth it. Also, the battles are no better than coil for the majority of people so if it wasn't for the gear, I bet you not alot of people would even bother just for the fights. There were a lot of threads back then, from raiders complaining about how Alex Savage fights were not exciting and actually boring. I agree with them, I couldn't stomach AS3 anymore after a while. We were one of the few statics that survived the statics murders. I'm actually surprised we did, because we were getting demoralized, too, but we kept going at it until we finally beat it.

[Fyce]

The ratio for effort:reward is not balanced. AS3 is a kick in the nuts and takes so much time investment, coordination, effort and can demoralize statics easily. If a fight is going to be this hard, at least the reward should feel worth of all that sweat. Making it worthless on the next patch after a few months is not the way to make it feel like it was worth it. Also, the battles are no better than coil for the majority of people so if it wasn't for the gear, I bet you not alot of people would even bother just for the fights. There were a lot of threads back then, from raiders complaining about how Alex Savage fights were not exciting and actually boring. I agree with them, I couldn't stomach AS3 anymore after a while. We were one of the few statics that survived the statics murders. I'm actually surprised we did, because we were getting demoralized, too, but we kept going at it until we finally beat it.

How much "time and investment" does it take to gear 8 people with full Diadem gear (implying "better stats than Gordian/Eso")?

The fact is that there's a chance that you might never get something from the Diadem better than what you can have with Gordian/Eso. You might never be able to fill some equipment slot with that pink gear, no matter how much "effort" you put in farming. Therefore, speaking of Eso/Gordian as becoming irrelevant because of the Diadem is completly false.

You absolutly cannot make BiS predictions accounting Diadem gear since you can't guarantee getting it for 3.2 at all. The safest bet is still to get the Gordian BiS to be sure that you'll have the best reliable thing for the next raid tier.


Besires, AS is 5 months old. If you don't think it's was worth it for the achievement, title, mount, minion and best gear 5-months exclusivity, then it comes down to a subjective argument where your felling of "being worth it" will varies greatly from someone else who might think that their special snowflake time has lasted long enough.