How do these changes fix the issues with Paladin?

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

The balance does not just concern DPS though. If you gave PLD WAR or DRK-level deeps it still wouldn't fix the rest of their kit which is disjointed and revolves around mechanics that are utterly divorced from eachother with the sole exception of Sheltron for block procs and MP. PLD wouldn't need insane DPS if their utility simply got the fix it deserves, for the same reason that BRDs don't need to do MNK or SMN-level dps. Imagine if they did something (totally unrealistic) like giving Paeon or Ballad to PLD. You could ditch your BRD/MCH and bring an extra caster. BRD/MCH would still have their place in DRK/WAR groups. You could also forgo a DRG for a MNK/NIN since you'd have no ranged DPS needing the piercing debuff. Something like that could open party compositions up to entirely new possibilities. As I said, its highly unlikely. But balance is something that concerns the entire party, not just the tanks.

You could even give PLD abilities to make it function as a healer/tank hybrid, like a Lustrate/Tetra clone and perhaps a Soil/Asylum clone as well. Thus allowing you to forgo a WHM, bring a SCH/AST and allow them to dip into cleric stance far more often. It'd be a totally different playstyle and would fit in with the direction that they've established for PLD. PLD isn't the raging berserker that is WAR and its not the menacing death-dealer that is DRK. Its a protector, a meat shield. They are not going to abandon that design choice any more than they are going to nerf WAR or DRK's DPS.

Giving PLD high personal DPS is A. Not likely to happen and B. Not the only fix to the problem.

Oh, I completely understand where you're coming from saying that it's not just a DPS issue. Our kit is indeed a mess. I have a signature in my posts of a thread I took days to type out for suggesting changes they could make to the job that would be a way to fix it. The community pretty much accepted the thread with neutrality and it's since died. I've been saying the job needs reworked to even accomplish balance for a while now. I also said the longer they prolong fixing it the more and more and more obvious it will become that it's a mess right now. The job has to be reworked. It has to work with itself and others, it has to overcome its own weaknesses over time. That's the whole reason why Warrior is the ideal job right now. It's not at all because it just puts up massive numbers. It ensures its own survival while also boosting its damage. The DPS is just a benefit and the skills have been tailored around that.

Square, give that kind of shit to everyone, we need to be able to have built in obstacle destruction.

[Shurrikhan]

I have a signature in my posts of a thread I took days to type out for suggesting changes they could make to the job that would be a way to fix it.

I'll be heading over to your thread in just a bit once I've finished posting my initial thoughts here. I'll edit here as well when I've finished reading it fully.

When I look at these changes I see:
- TP consuption worsened by lack of Shield Swipe as a low-TP GCD. The 10-TP deduction on GB, used only every 24s, does not make up for the loss of the 20-TP deduction on Shield Swipe, which is ideally used once per GB to best time GB's DoT refresh.
- Blocking/parrying magic refused, even at reduced values.
- Block/dodge/parry RNG remains untouched. As the one job utilizing all three, PLD especially feels left in muck.
- PLD MT dps mostly unchanged. PLD OT dps was already in a fairly good place whereas MT dps floundered behind the other tanks. I'm fairly certain that if they were keeping its refresh component then that would be mentioned on the patch notes. Removing the ability for Shield Swipe to refresh on block removes the entirety of its MT benefits. Though those were few enough at 60, already, that will make a significant loss to spot-enmity in dungeon pulls and mitigation utility, and will feel like a shot to foot in any High-level roulette when you pop Bulwark for a free (at that time significantly enmity- and control-increasing) Shield Swipe spam.

Now, if they go ahead and keep the refresh component atop the 15s oGCD (Hell yes...), my only question--not even a complaint, really--is... why ever use a Tower Shield? We're not exactly mitigating 33% of anything out here, especially now that STR doesn't affect block values.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I'll be heading over to your thread in just a bit once I've finished posting my initial thoughts here. I'll edit here as well when I've finished reading it fully.

When I look at these changes I see:
- TP consuption worsened by lack of Shield Swipe as a low-TP GCD. The 10-TP deduction on GB, used only every 24s, does not make up for the loss of the 20-TP deduction on Shield Swipe, which is ideally used once per GB to best time GB's DoT refresh.
- Blocking/parrying magic refused, even at reduced values.
- Block/dodge/parry RNG remains untouched. As the one job utilizing all three, PLD especially feels left in muck.
- PLD MT dps mostly unchanged. PLD OT dps was already in a fairly good place whereas MT dps floundered behind the other tanks. Removing the ability for Shield Swipe removes the entirety of its MT benefits. Though those were few enough at 60, already, that will make a significant loss to spot-enmity in dungeon pulls and mitigation utility, and will feel like a shot to foot in any High-level roulette when you pop Bulwark for a free (at that time significantly enmity- and control-increasing) Shield Swipe spam.

Now, if they go ahead and keep the refresh component atop the 15s oGCD (Hell yes...), my only question--not even a complaint, really--is... why ever use a Tower Shield? We're not exactly mitigating 33% of anything out here, especially now that STR doesn't affect block values.

Well don't expect anything other than "well that would be sorta' cool" from my thread. I think it's got great ideas that were actually given to other jobs instead, which considering the mess right now, is a fucking tragedy.

[Echelon]

Ok I haven't seen anyone touch up on this or if they have I apologize but..

What about when you pop Bulwark and spam SS...is doing that now (before 3.1) a DPS loss? because obviously after we cant do that.. so if its a DPS loss I'd like to know the reasoning why. If its not too much trouble.