Savage Clear rate being lower the Devs expected, good or a bad thing?

[Alexftw]

Thats why soon there will be a way for casual people to obtain i210 gear . Let savage be there for the 1% community who want to face agaisnt a wall in order to break it. We enjoy challenges. This way everyone gets what they want.

[HorseBoots]

In Alexander Savage

>Your tanks barely tank
>Your healers barely heal
>Your DPS checks are closer to gear checks

Alexander Savage is rotten right down to its core. BCoB served as an introduction to what hardcore playing at level 50 was suppose to be, and every iteration following it just built on-top of itself. Alexander Savage fails to provide the same introduction to level 60 raiding. It even goes as far as to shaft other classes the opportunity to learn the utility of their new abilities.

Both of your proper tank busters in Savage are magical, completely ruining any use for Shelltron for poor Paladin. Monks were getting turned down due to the need of burst optimization, and their two party wide utility abilities, Mantra and Dragon Kick are deemed unneeded thanks to everyone and their dog bring Dark Knights as their main tanks and the bosses hitting like a wet noodle that half the time your SCH is just DPSing anyway.

In order for most average groups to even clear A3S you have your tanks dressed in almost full STR gear and barely ever in Tank Stance, and even then you'll still probably look towards your SCH to help make sure you meet the overall DPS benchmarks between phases. This of course after Director and Producer himself claiming that they do not design encounters with Healer DPS in mind, letting it serve as "bonus DPS" when you lack the gear.

It's like the raid team decided to throw 2 years of experience out the window and had no actual idea what they really wanted to do. It completely soured the launch of the expansion and took the winds right out of the sails of the current series.

And they better hope to god that they don't make the same mistakes with the 2nd raid, because if they do this raiding community is as good as dead.




So no, I am not upset at the idea of adjusting bad fights.

[SchalaZeal]

That'd be like saying more people played Hello Kitty Island Adventure than Dark Souls because there were more completions of HKIA.

That's a game South Park made up, but Hello Kitty Online exists, and is a mostly social game. Last I tried there was no combat skills and combat was there to harvest items to craft or quest from monsters. So you can't really 'complete' HKO, like you can't "win" at The Sims.

In order for most average groups to even clear A3S you have your tanks dressed in almost full STR gear and barely ever in Tank Stance, and even then you'll still probably look towards your SCH to help make sure you meet the overall DPS benchmarks between phases. This of course after Director and Producer himself claiming that they do not design encounters with Healer DPS in mind, letting it serve as "bonus DPS" when you lack the gear.

First coil was designed for i70 gear (the tome kind, not the crafted with melds) in mind, yet lots of groups didn't clear before i85 average if not more. So it's like Savage was designed for i190 gear, yet lots of group pretty much need full i210 to clear without using tank or healer dps. Of course "designed for" implies everyone at that ilv should pass, but that means perfect rotations, no one dying, flawless mechanics. It's the world firster min ilv.

[Kit-Kat]

I have given up on end-game since FCoB. Statics and strict lock-outs are too much trouble to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I'm not surprised NA player base clear rates are not 90%-100%.

This. I cba anymore with statics. I was raiding weekly for SCoB and FCoB but didn't even bother with alex savage. I've been playing casually since 3.0 now, and while it might be a bit boring, its a relief aswell. And most important part, I can get whatever eso piece for glamour I want instead of mandatory 1 class to raid

[razzgrizz3]

This is terrible because it has literaly killed majority of the raiding community in this game.

Personally i think the fault is entirely with the dev team. The raid is over tuned, seriously no more holy trinity because the dps are incapable of doing their jobs (not of fault of their own, it is literaly impossible to get through dps checks with dps classes alone). Now one healer is dpsing half the fight while the other solo heals while ALSO dpsing + the str tanks that cant even stay in tanking stance anymore or the team wipes due to dps checks. Then the devs have the gall to claim they dont take healer dps into consideration when designing the fights and yoshida on top saying how he didnt want hard dungeons this patch because it would "over burden healers". Give me a break.

Also raid is poorly designed in general. Just think about a4 for a second the only reason folks other then elysium are even clearing it is because of the borderline exploit of server latency ticks and ignoring nisi. I asure you the clears would be even less had this exploit not been found.

This whole ordeal sadens me because going by the interview they have learned absolutely nothing.

[dejavutwo]

Its bad that fewer players cleared than expected in the sense that it severely damaged the raiding community, and it will probably take a long time for some of the smaller servers to recover. As a player, Savage was just horrible to try to progress through for a multitude of reasons which caused a lot of players to quit, and lead to a lot of statics having to deal with a revolving door of players making progressing even harder as you are constantly training up new players. My group went through 8 players in the bard/healer slot before we got 2 who enjoyed raiding enough to deal with the constant wipes in A3. As much as I enjoy raiding and love spending time with my group, even I was on the verge of cancelling my sub, and had the last bard/healer not stayed, I too would have quit.


However, its not all bad as it means the dev team now knows the upper limit for what the general raiding community is capable of. So, I think it has been a learning experience for the raid designers, and I doubt they will have a repeat of the A3S wall anytime soon. I just hope the next Alexander also addresses some of the other issues that Savage had that lead to it feeling uninteresting and not worthwhile.

[rappa]

Alexander Savage is rotten right down to its core. BCoB served as an introduction to what hardcore playing at level 50 was suppose to be, and every iteration following it just built on-top of itself. Alexander Savage fails to provide the same introduction to level 60 raiding. It even goes as far as to shaft other classes the opportunity to learn the utility of their new abilities.

Do you need an introduction to raids? do you not raid at lvl 50 in BCOB, SCOB or FCOB? The game didn't change, the core still here. You need avoid aoe, hit hard, heals and tank correctly the bosses. I could understand a new player could be overwhelmed, but a old-school ffxiv-raider?

Both of your proper tank busters in Savage are magical, completely ruining any use for Shelltron for poor Paladin. Monks were getting turned down due to the need of burst optimization, and their two party wide utility abilities, Mantra and Dragon Kick are deemed unneeded thanks to everyone and their dog bring Dark Knights as their main tanks and the bosses hitting like a wet noodle that half the time your SCH is just DPSing anyway.

I agree, paladin is behind drk and war. but monk? what is wrong with monks? mantra is not needed? Dragon kick is not needed? what kind of raid do you play? Mantra save a lot of life during a3s cascades and splash. During carnage zero and posterior aoe busters in a4s. Atm, monk provides a great dps, refuse to join with a monk because dragon kick is not necessary. Now i think why players are unable to kill Savage.

In order for most average groups to even clear A3S you have your tanks dressed in almost full STR gear and barely ever in Tank Stance, and even then you'll still probably look towards your SCH to help make sure you meet the overall DPS benchmarks between phases. This of course after Director and Producer himself claiming that they do not design encounters with Healer DPS in mind, letting it serve as "bonus DPS" when you lack the gear.

When your team lack of gear, you need healers and tank dps. It's obvious.
Developers have dps numbers, dps rotations and combinations (sometimes players exceed expectations). They now how many dps you are able to do with 190 ilvl, 195ilvl,...210ilvl. They have a computer program, establish a rotation sequence and run it. His program does the rotation correctly and perfect. And they know how many dps you are able to do if you play as a bot. Dev don't create a boss, add hp numbers, introduce a few mechanics and voila a endgame encounter. They tested and also they were surprised with Elysium and Lucrezia kills.

i'll take Oppresor and this chart


It was the necessary dps to kill Oppresor.
With 190, you should do 1k dps after the first jump as dps and your final dps should be 800-930 (less or more).
Now, you enter the first day to oppresor, your max dps with '185' was 800 and your top is 900 without mistakes or dealing mechanics.
You need 4900 dps and your total is 4750. You lack of 150 dps avoiding you to kill the boss. You can improve your rotation and reduce downtime, but the boss is supposed to be killed with 190+ gear and you are gearing 185+. What do you do? Gid gud, improve and your tanks and your heals do the dps your damage dealers are unable to get due lack of gear.

Now you have A3S, was killed the second week and others players when they bought eso weapon. A3S was supposed to being killed with 195+ gear. But your team have 190+. What do yo dou? Git gud and improve. Healers and tanks help damage dealers to reach dps check.

A4s need 205. What do you do if you gear is 200+? check above.

What happen when you haven't got the necessary gear to kill the boss but your team don't reach the dps? You have to cap esoterics and loots from the dungeon until you break the dps check to kill the boss.

what happen when you surpass the average necessary ilvl to kill the boss and you are unable to kill it? You could pray for more gear or check what happen in your raid, who is underperforming, who is failing and try to improve his dps, his heals or CD management.

It's like the raid team decided to throw 2 years of experience out the window and had no actual idea what they really wanted to do. It completely soured the launch of the expansion and took the winds right out of the sails of the current series.

And they better hope to god that they don't make the same mistakes with the 2nd raid, because if they do this raiding community is as good as dead.

So no, I am not upset at the idea of adjusting bad fights.

The community demanded Hards fights. SCOB and FCOB were killed the first week after being released. And the next month, a part of the community endgame. I remember t13 kills numbers were 10%. This percent was increased when SE introduced "the famous echo". 10% healing, 10% hp and 10% damage.

And now, a lot of "echo raiders" thought they could kill Savage, but Devs increased the difficult and dpscheck. What do you get? Savage is to hard, my party is unable to kill faust, Oppresor 0.5 jumps down with 70%, what the hell!!! we can't pass from hands of pain!!!...

]------------[


And here is the difference between JP players and NA/EU. We are stubborn, we do not accept tips, advices or recommendations about dps/playstyle. we blame lag, we blame servers, we blame bad encounters design, we blame dpscheck, we blame gearchecks we blame elitists players, we blame others players who killed the boss before us and don't help me, and also we blame party members and friends. And what happen? we are going blind in our pride, our selfishness and we give up to play endgame thinking the rest of players are trash and we are the only good.

[melisande]

And now, a lot of "echo raiders" thought they could kill Savage, but Devs increased the difficult and dpscheck. What do you get? Savage is to hard, my party is unable to kill faust, Oppresor 0.5 jumps down with 70%, what the hell!!! we can't pass from hands of pain!!!...

Thank you for showing us the exact type of player who is ruining the endgame community. Have fun with your parsers and stuff and your 'gid gud' attitude (no idea where that even came from.. WoW? GW2? idk.)

[rappa]

Thank you for showing us the exact type of player who is ruining the endgame community. Have fun with your parsers and stuff and your 'gid gud' attitude (no idea where that even came from.. WoW? GW2? idk.)

My answer:

And here is the difference between JP players and NA/EU. We are stubborn, we do not accept tips, advices or recommendations about dps/playstyle. we blame lag, we blame servers, we blame bad encounters design, we blame dpscheck, we blame gearchecks we blame elitists players, we blame others players who killed the boss before us and don't help me, and also we blame party members and friends. And what happen? we are going blind in our pride, our selfishness and we give up to play endgame thinking the rest of players are trash and we are the only good.

[melisande]

My answer:

And your argument is moot because I originate from a JP server, where i didn't play with NA/EU people with horrible attitudes like yourself.