JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[rappa]

First problem: Zero messures to teach a player without a third program.

How do you teach a player who is underperforming if you are unable to show numbers or he is unable to check it?
Tooltips are not helpful a lot.

Example: One friend has a bard in his savage group and he is underperforming. He play in ps3 or ps4, doesn't matter. Their group was unable to kill a1s until recently. I asked a fflog to check what happened. The first check: he didn't put dots on oppresor and 0.5. He barely used Iron Jaws and a few more mistakes easily put right. I told to him -"Ask me if you have any problem or situation, your gear, party composition or also placement"- I received zero questions and zero interest to improve. They killed a1s due 200+ gear and put the effort into healers and tanks.

I leveled one alter bard, same as my main Savage character. It's 190+ and i joined a few a1s "down", "clear", "enrage exp", etc. My bard is not well geared, but still more than the first time i killed a1s. I have eso wep and i hadn't in my main. In some runs i did more dps than 200+ ilvl.

The last night, i met a blm in Vault, lvl 57 dungeon. He only used fire III if firestarter procs. He casted blizzard III correctly to fill mp, but used fire i losing umbral stack, and again fire I to gain Astral stack. I explained him a 2.0 rotation and he was receptive and thankful. The fact is not the guy did a bad rotation, the problem was nobody in 57 level during dungeons or leveling say nothing about their rotation. Sometimes i write "ironic" answers in chat like "overpower/flare/grenado shot/flash/unleash are overrated".

Parsers are a tool and easy way to fix mistakes and dps behaviors. In a lot of runs, you don't need parsers to check something is wrong. Bards without dots, smn without shadowflare or banes, ice mages, tanks single targets and let the party handle with others mobs. I am a hardcore, tryharder, elitist and others adjectives, but i am helpful if a player deserve my time. One behavior i see that is wrong. You try to fix or give advice to a player who does horrible, then the party marks you as an elitist. -"let him play as he wants", -"Shut up and play, who cares about 50 mins run party, just finish and move on"-. You discover now how bad players are in DF and they got max level with zero knowledge.

We need critical sense about us and others players. It's easily to blame others but it's our fault too if we let others players do wrong and we don't criticize their behavior like watch a tv-serie meanwhile you are spamming one ability and your party is carrying you.

TL; DR: The first step to teach others players is get a ingame parser. Show numbers and they would check how they are going.

[Madjames]

Rappa, I agree with you. We just need addons.

[Azazua_azura]

@ rappa
please explain how ff11 plauers taught other players?? most were ps2/360 plauers only a NA community was mainly pc. ff11 was on ps2 JP first for a year.
please explain how MUD plauer teach? there are no parser nor addons are allowed?'
Please explain how EQ players help teAch or any Post WoW game? Addons started at WoW tro my knowledge. People didn't talk of addons till post WoW which had alot of eq and ultima players.

[dank1]

@ rappa
please explain how ff11 plauers taught other players?? most were ps2/360 plauers only a NA community was mainly pc. ff11 was on ps2 JP first for a year.
please explain how MUD plauer teach? there are no parser nor addons are allowed?'
Please explain how EQ players help teAch or any Post WoW game? Addons started at WoW tro my knowledge. People didn't talk of addons till post WoW which had alot of eq and ultima players.

Those games werent build the same way as raids are now. Raids now are a lot more dps check oriented

[Nektulos-Tuor]

First problem: Zero messures to teach a player without a third program.

How do you teach a player who is underperforming if you are unable to show numbers or he is unable to check it?
Tooltips are not helpful a lot.

Example: One friend has a bard in his savage group and he is underperforming. He play in ps3 or ps4, doesn't matter. Their group was unable to kill a1s until recently. I asked a fflog to check what happened. The first check: he didn't put dots on oppresor and 0.5. He barely used Iron Jaws and a few more mistakes easily put right. I told to him -"Ask me if you have any problem or situation, your gear, party composition or also placement"- I received zero questions and zero interest to improve. They killed a1s due 200+ gear and put the effort into healers and tanks.

I leveled one alter bard, same as my main Savage character. It's 190+ and i joined a few a1s "down", "clear", "enrage exp", etc. My bard is not well geared, but still more than the first time i killed a1s. I have eso wep and i hadn't in my main. In some runs i did more dps than 200+ ilvl.

The last night, i met a blm in Vault, lvl 57 dungeon. He only used fire III if firestarter procs. He casted blizzard III correctly to fill mp, but used fire i losing umbral stack, and again fire I to gain Astral stack. I explained him a 2.0 rotation and he was receptive and thankful. The fact is not the guy did a bad rotation, the problem was nobody in 57 level during dungeons or leveling say nothing about their rotation. Sometimes i write "ironic" answers in chat like "overpower/flare/grenado shot/flash/unleash are overrated".

Parsers are a tool and easy way to fix mistakes and dps behaviors. In a lot of runs, you don't need parsers to check something is wrong. Bards without dots, smn without shadowflare or banes, ice mages, tanks single targets and let the party handle with others mobs. I am a hardcore, tryharder, elitist and others adjectives, but i am helpful if a player deserve my time. One behavior i see that is wrong. You try to fix or give advice to a player who does horrible, then the party marks you as an elitist. -"let him play as he wants", -"Shut up and play, who cares about 50 mins run party, just finish and move on"-. You discover now how bad players are in DF and they got max level with zero knowledge.

We need critical sense about us and others players. It's easily to blame others but it's our fault too if we let others players do wrong and we don't criticize their behavior like watch a tv-serie meanwhile you are spamming one ability and your party is carrying you.

TL; DR: The first step to teach others players is get a ingame parser. Show numbers and they would check how they are going.

Actually you don't need parsers. If the game was not so solo based and the content in the beginning was a lot harder you are "forced" to improve your character. When your fighting solo mobs that can barely even hurt you. It really doesn't teach you how to DPS.

In Everquest for example, you didn't do enough DPS? Tough, your dead. You should get some help, or learn to play better. Which, made players suprisingly better.

[rappa]

I didn't play FFXI or Everquest. I started playing MMO's with Daoc and WoW. I can't say how others players taught in that games.
As far i know, we learnt with trial and error. Some players had more time to invest than others and they tested rotations. It's pure math.

I played wow and one of the first addon to download was recount. I am a competitive player and i have to test what i am doing. Numbers without a scale don't show anything.

Sometimes you don't need a parser to check what is going wrong. The best example is a BLM only casting Fire III and Blizzard III. Fire III 3.5 cast against Fire I 2.5 cast and less mp cost with the chance to get a free Fire III.


#Nektulos-Tuor: As i said, parsers are the easy way to show how is going the run and who is not doing correctly. Obviously, don't kill the boss before enrage, or take long time to be killed are a "big alert".

Parsers are the same as car control panel or dashboard (sorry i don't know the correct word). Your car suddenly stopped, you know something is wrong. You can blame tires, the wheel, direction, bateries or others component. With the car control, you check your gas is low and you need recharge it and took less than a minute.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I didn't play FFXI or Everquest. I started playing MMO's with Daoc and WoW. I can't say how others players taught in that games.
As far i know, we learnt with trial and error. Some players had more time to invest than others and they tested rotations. It's pure math.

I played wow and one of the first addon to download was recount. I am a competitive player and i have to test what i am doing. Numbers without a scale don't show anything.

Sometimes you don't need a parser to check what is going wrong. The best example is a BLM only casting Fire III and Blizzard III. Fire III 3.5 cast against Fire I 2.5 cast and less mp cost with the chance to get a free Fire III.

The game has a 2.5 GCD. Its not hard to see a pattern of your damage to see which results produce more damage. However the current content does not really punish you for being slow.

If for example, the game had contested dungeons. You are forced to clear the monsters and bosses fast before rooms respawn. If you were too slow, the rooms would respawn and you would be overwhelmed and lose.

I played games before there were things like Parses and Threat meters. I find them more crutches then anything else and honestly you don't need them.

[Animarelic]

First off in ff11 you didn't need to do endgame Ff11 story was optional as well, you log on and level up did quests for fame/gil.

^ This is wrong because you needed levels to get mission to unlock other areas of the game. The Goal was to unlock more story to complete the game. You hunted HNM's to get gear to prepare you for Raids. Everything you did was to lead you to the end.

you did rank missions to open endgame up such as dynamis, sky, sea etc. BUT the gear and weapons were optional and didn't need it to play. each story expac was stand alone and required none of the gear in endgame to play it. Like you didn't need dynamis gear to play in sky, you didn't need sky gear to play in sea. Infact i met entire cap linkshells who opted out of endgame. FF11 had alot of content you could do outside of endgame.

Every MMO is the same way you get gear to push to towards the end and it is ALWAYS only good until the next expansion. So was the way you unlocked new content. FFXI was not "Optional" the "Missions" were not "Optional" You needed them to progress otherwise there was no reason to play. Even hunting HNM's were for acquiring gear to prepare you for raiding so explain to me these "options" and don't mention PvP. After completing the missions to unlock the Raiding you either stood around town, crafting or leveled another job none of which constituted as a "Viable option". Even the Merit system was designed to build you for endgame.

In every mmo i played endgame was an option not a goal, only mmo like this was WoW which was you level up then raided.

This leads me to believe you don't "Play" MMO's you "Sample" them never finishing anything you start otherwise you'd know Endgame was ALWAYS the Goal until FF14.

What I'm trying to point out, is your acting like a typical WoW forum going who take people at face value and measure their worth on that. Your acting like i have no right to an opinion because at face value "i'm a level 50 with no endgame experience". And not admiting that you are just stating fallacies that WoW player think of ff11.

No one is judging you on "Face Value" from the claims you've made to the way to explain yourself is more than enough to know you speak with a novice tongue like most of the people on these forums. (p.s. grammar Nazi it's "You're") <-- cuz that's what WoW forums trolls do.

So please stop acting high and mighty with your so called game experience that honestly sounds like lies to me.

Speaking with confidence and assurance isn't acting "high and mighty" which shows me you lack the social skills to differentiate. I'm not the best player by far but I don't come on these forums opening my mouth haphazardly like some upset little child who hasn't developed proper reasoning skills. The fact that you would even say i'm "Lying" proves just that. BTW my Achievements are unlocked.

[hagare]

TL; DR: The first step to teach others players is get a ingame parser. Show numbers and they would check how they are going.

Anyways, when your early game requires no partying up for anything and the "hard" stuff requires partying up... I don't think its NA's problem.

99% solo game and parser? really?
those reasons don't work guys. Why? Because the JP community plays the same game and we have the results to proof it.
their clear of hard group content is better than NA despite all the solo content, and they also don't have an in game parser.

As soon as other NA players become considerate of other people's time and show up prepared, just like JP players do when they pug.

[MihaelB]

The inherent difference in culture and environment in the two countries that individuals are brought up in are more than enough of an obvious distinction to their psychological mind frame in task orientation.

By the age that people play this game, they've already ingrained into their personalities and psychologies which the two communities as a whole obviously differ.

Train to become good & carry me please majorities, we can see which community has more of which with the exodus of people from savage....