JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[Malevicton]

riiiiiight.
the most common run selling is letting the buyer die and complete the content with the 7 man seller.
I call BS if you say you'll let the buyers wipe you for more than 3 times.

PS: pony farms are different because they're not buying to pass the content, they're paying for guaranteed pony *if it drops*

?

I'm pretty sure you misread my comment. I'm familiar with how sell groups work. I'm just saying that people selling fish doesn't keep anyone else from teaching or giving fish. If you take a sell run out of pf, you just have one less pf listing, it doesn't turn into a learning group, or add other groups. The sell group would just be gone.

So blaming run sells for a lack of learning/clear groups is misplaced.

[hagare]

?

I'm pretty sure you misread my comment. I'm familiar with how sell groups work. I'm just saying that people selling fish doesn't keep anyone else from teaching or giving fish. If you take a sell run out of pf, you just have one less pf listing, it doesn't turn into a learning group, or add other groups. The sell group would just be gone.

So blaming run sells for a lack of learning/clear groups is misplaced.

of course it's not solely the fault of run selling.
I'm just saying that it's a part of the problem.
It makes people think "why bother learning fights when I can just pay to get carried."
And that in turn makes more people that doesn't want to learn and just wants to get carried. Whether in bought runs or other runs.
It creates a bad attitude and mindset.

[Malevicton]

of course it's not solely the fault of run selling.
I'm just saying that it's a part of the problem.
It makes people think "why bother learning fights when I can just pay to get carried."
And that in turn makes more people that doesn't want to learn and just wants to get carried. Whether in bought runs or other runs.
It creates a bad attitude and mindset.

It doesn't create the attitude. At worst it allows it, but the attitude has to already be there for the market to emerge.

Run sells operate on supply and demand like everything else. Their existence is a symptom of demand; they aren't a cause. Demand preceded them.

[hagare]

It doesn't create the attitude. At worst it allows it, but the attitude has to already be there for the market to emerge.

Run sells operate on supply and demand like everything else. Their existence is a symptom of demand; they aren't a cause. Demand preceded them.

It allows and exacerbates.
Even if demand is there, if there is no supply, the people who buy runs are gonna have to change their attitude.
They're gonna either start learning or leave the raid scene.

Which is pretty much how it mostly goes in JP community.
Run selling is frowned upon there.

[Lewtskie]

It allows and amplifies.
Even if demand is there, if there is no supply, the people who buy runs are gonna have to change their attitude.
They're gonna either start learning or leave the raid scene.

Which is pretty much how it mostly goes in JP community.
Run selling is frowned upon there.

Frowned upon, sure, but are you saying that there is absolutely no success in selling runs on JP servers? I can tell you the majority of the playerbase US and EU side aren't for selling runs either.

But what's really going to stop them? Glaring at them grudgingly?

And on the note of 'amplifies' I have to strongly disagree. It's just like large corporations and their paranoia concerning piracy. Nothing is going to make someone who never had the mind to pirate something suddenly want to do it. If someone does pirate a product, that desire or that urge to do so was already there, merely hidden while acquiring said product wasn't so wholly out of their way.

[hagare]

Frowned upon, sure, but are you saying that there is absolutely no success in selling runs on JP servers? I can tell you the majority of the playerbase US and EU side aren't for selling runs either.

But what's really going to stop them? Glaring at them grudgingly?

And on the note of 'amplifies' I have to strongly disagree. It's just like large corporations and their paranoia concerning piracy. Nothing is going to make someone who never had the mind to pirate something suddenly want to do it. If someone does pirate a product, that desire or that urge to do so was already there, merely hidden while acquiring said product wasn't so wholly out of their way.

what to do about it? Eh I don't know. I don't buy runs.
Maybe if the community leans more towards teaching and learning together. You know, like the JP community.
Like I said, it's all about the attitude. If you want the community to change, you gotta change.

Nothing is going to make someone who never had the mind to pirate something suddenly want to do it.

well duh. You can't amplify zero.

read what I wrote again:

Even if demand is there, if there is no supply, the people who buy runs are gonna have to change their attitude.
They're gonna either start learning or leave the raid scene.

I gotta say, the last time I tried to say its the community's job to help teach people how to play, I got told off.

Which says something about our players.

yeah different mentality, different attitude.

It's like a debate I had once.
Survival of the fittest vs Working together.
welp numbers don't lie.

[zosia]

It allows and exacerbates.
Even if demand is there, if there is no supply, the people who buy runs are gonna have to change their attitude.
They're gonna either start learning or leave the raid scene.

Which is pretty much how it mostly goes in JP community.
Run selling is frowned upon there.

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content. Why should we bother investing in a community that has no interest in our concerns? I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

[hagare]

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content. Why should we bother investing in a community that has no interest in our concerns? I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

welp there it is folks.
the perfect example xD

I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

coming from the person who helps create them:

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content.

Thank you

[Whiteroom]

welp there it is folks.
the perfect example xD

I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

coming from the person who helps create them:

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content.

Thank you

Well, I see a fair number of run sellers on my server who randomly join PFs to help. Hell the biggest one I know will join lots and I've even seen them call out party leaders for kicking someone rather than helping. So it's not like all sellers are out there creating bad players in droves. I'm fairly certian that the run buyers make up a very small portion of the bad players. Hell buying a run doesn't even mean the player is a bad player.

I would say the biggest problem with run selling does't even have anything to do with topic, or at least less, and thats those buying gil to pay for it.