JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[Kuroyasha]

As long as there are elitist forums with people gassing each other up in a hermetically sealed bubble, that will be a tough row to hoe. There are too many folks with this cliquish mentality and are determined to keep other players from learning through doing and actually becoming good at these fights.

Then do them with people that you dont view as elitist and start from the beginning.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

It's same in all parts of the game most veteran crafters will refuse to help new crafters to lessen the chance of mb competition.

[Gumbercules]

The US is the wrong culture to expect something like this from, its designed to be competitive in every single aspect. Someone is poor....they need to git gud and find a better job! Someone is chubby .... git gud and eat better! Someone causes a wipe in any MMO ... git gud and learn somewhere else! :P I wont even say that i disagree with the "end" parts of what is expected in most cases, but its just not a culture conductive to supporting others in their way there :P

[raymon]

personally i believe watching a guide video is like reading the driver book the DMV gives you. you don't read it and instantly be great at driving. (in this case running content)

[Nektulos-Tuor]

The US is the wrong culture to expect something like this from, its designed to be competitive in every single aspect. Someone is poor....they need to git gud and find a better job! Someone is chubby .... git gud and eat better! Someone causes a wipe in any MMO ... git gud and learn somewhere else! :P I wont even say that i disagree with the "end" parts of what is expected in most cases, but its just not a culture conductive to supporting others in their way there :P

Exactly.

Say they added a system which made EVERYONE on a server weaker and the ENTIRE server stronger if they did something. What if we could get our characters up to five, ten times stronger then an average player by weakening everyone else? THAT is competition, that is something to fight for, a proper reward for effort.

I see other players as competition/rivals, not friends.

[Brian_]

I left out another very important observation from my time on Gilgamesh vs. Tonberry.

I spent the majority of my FFXIV playtime on Gilgamesh. I can count the number of times someone has asked me about detailed specifics regarding how to do a fight on probably one hand. Since joining Tonberry, people have regularly asked very targeted and productive questions regarding the details of my rotation in fights or CD usage so they could learn. On Gilgamesh, I have to wait until they are stuck on content and wiping before the questions start to pop up. At that point, who knows what type of stress the group is under. On Tonberry, my friends ask me how I do a fight before they go in with their group to attempt it.

For example, my healer friend recently had to do Bismark EX on their WAR to help another friend. She asked me if there was anything specific about the fight she needed to know in relation to her role -- how to tank swap, how to time her CDs, which adds to pick up, etc. I told her everything she needed to know in a very clear way. She cleared it with the PF group shortly after.

I routinely get asked by other players how I'm using my CDs in AS1, what my GCD usage looks like in AS3, etc. That never happened on Gilgamesh. People either didn't care or found some imaginary fault with seeking help.

So really, there is a lot of talk about how to salvage the PuG situation in NA. It's an issue with your players.

[Primernova]

Exactly.

Say they added a system which made EVERYONE on a server weaker and the ENTIRE server stronger if they did something

I see other players as competition/rivals, not friends.

Queues need to be removed from MMOs. Queues, ruined MMOs. The need for an actual community, used to be very important, even if it was competitive, or especially so. Players used to step up in droves, to get better and learn. Once 'catch up' gear and having content handed to everyone was a thing, the genre died. The Japanese inherently have a deep sense of community, the west does not, at all anymore.

Make no mistake, MMOs are a dead genre. The current form of them is based strictly on addiction. They are zero fun compared to what they used to be, or any other current genre. You are wasting your time still playing them in this state.

[Lucke]

personally i believe watching a guide video is like reading the driver book the DMV gives you. you don't read it and instantly be great at driving. (in this case running content)

"Experience is the best Teacher".

Reading the book is well and good, but you still have never driven. Learning to drive by actually driving is miles better than reading the book.

Same thing here, one could watch/read a guide till their eyes bleed, they still haven't done the content.

In other words, sucking it up and doing the content is much MUCH more effective than reading some guide/video that may not even be current any more.

[Limecat]

[Ashkendor]

I'll agree that there are plenty of players out there who don't bother to make an attempt at learning their rotations, but that's not the point of this thread. It's not asking for people to be willing to carry such players, but rather for them to be willing to work with the ones that are actually trying. It's one thing for players to know how to play their class. It's another for the rest of the team to either kick them or abandon the run if said player is unfamiliar with the fight, or makes a single mistake.....

It's not about being perfect, though. The biggest thing to take into account is that people tend to feel that someone going in blind is putting the onus on the other seven players to clear content for them rather than taking some initiative to clear it themselves. I understand all too well that not everyone learns well from videos. As one of those players myself, my advice is watch them anyway. Any information that you get out of it can only help you. Some mechanics are best learned by actually doing them, but it really does help to have an idea of what to expect. Other players will appreciate that you at least took the initiative to watch a video even if you still mess up a mechanic. Yes there are a select few players that get upset if anyone even messes up a single mechanic, but they are few and far between. Any rational person understands that watching a video doesn't magically give you 100% proficiency.

If you're really insistent on not wanting spoilers, that's perfectly fine. If you are catching up on content you should probably not do it in Duty Finder, though. If you want to go into old content completely blind, some friends or Party Finder would be the way to go.

As long as there are elitist forums with people gassing each other up in a hermetically sealed bubble, that will be a tough row to hoe. There are too many folks with this cliquish mentality and are determined to keep other players from learning through doing and actually becoming good at these fights.

You need to remove the tinfoil hat, sir. I don't know a single person that gets out of bed and logs into the game bound and determined to prevent players from learning through doing. There is simply a time and a place for doing it. Going into Duty Finder and expecting seven random people to bear with you while you wipe the party repeatedly is unrealistic. That's why we have Party Finder - if you want to learn, make a party with people that are there to learn with you or there to teach you.

I don't learn well from videos myself but I watch them and get what I can from them anyway. It helps me know what to expect.