Warrior of Darkness: alter ego or something completely different?

[Kallera]

Remember that there are screenshots of Derp and his party on an echo vision?
Derp had a weapon of light and he and his party had not Af2 dyed in black.

Echo visions are cutscenes.

Its more like I wish it happened that way. Not that it will happen that way.

[Frederick22]

Echo visions are cutscenes.

Its more like I wish it happened that way. Not that it will happen that way.

I know they are, but that even makes more question than answers.

Based on that I can just speculate that maybe they were WoL on the begining but something happened. But where do we end on this? what happens if we are legacy players ( as them ) or we arent?

[Nalien]

Seriously though, why were they on the moon? There were no structures in sight... They could easily have just used Ascian HQ, but they opted for the moon... Why?

OK, apparently I'm f*cking blind as hell;



Oh look, an effin' statue!

I'm not imagining this, right? That's a head, and a hand and some structure behind him? Kinda similar perhaps to the statue in the Ascian HQ? Same crossed arms, though an arm seems to be missing, same ring/wings behind perhaps... Not the best quality in the world, but it is there, right? For a brief second right after the credits finish, Elidibus it looking at it, then the camera quickly pans to his face so we can't see the statue.

OK, watched it again, yep... Statue, badly damaged, but it has the same ring/wing motif behind it that can be seen here;



So there is a statue of Zodiark on the moon that I apparently missed the first time through... God dammit, Ascians are Lunarians, aren't they? Please be a hybrid of Final Fantasy IV and IX. Please be a hybrid of Final Fantasy IV and IX. The Rejoining effectively being IXs Terra and Gaia plot I can handle, eat up in fact...

3.3 24-man: Ispens castle. Do more damage by doing less damage.
Suddenly you want all the players out of that 90minute WoD-run-of-nightmares in your group.

I've my heart set on a Memoria style raid, personally... I think Final Fantasy XIV lore would really suit such a style of dungeon... What better way to display past Eras and Calamities? Either they can eventually deliver a bunch of exposition on the First/etc. Eras, or they could have us walk through it. Also, I don't know if Hildibrand is coming back, but Zorn and Thorn could easily be the next Ultros and Typhon (complete with a Meltigemini final phase?!), although with the Warriors of Darkness kicking around, I imagine Hildibrand would be facing off against the Gentleman of Darkness if he returns...

[Cilia]

Where are my IX references, SE!?

Even though IX is by no means a bad game, its timing and setting was too off to be well-remembered. It came out only a year before X and a year later was XI, both of which pushed the franchise forward leaps and bounds graphically and systematically, while IX was a throwback to the franchise's roots.

IX: franchise throwback in every sense (medieval setting, 4-party combat, loosely-defined classes, etc).
X: franchise advancement (voice acting, new battle system, better graphics, weapon customization, more Eastern-influenced setting, etc).
XI: first MMO in FF history. Pushed everything forward as you'd expect, or at least spun it in an MMO direction (to the extent XII took some cues from its battle system and XI vets can't stop pining for stuff from it).

[Anonymoose]

Oh look, an effin' statue!

You have no idea how long I've been waiting for someone to call attention to that, lol.

There is, indeed, a damaged statue of Zodiark up there.
There's also a moon replica of the "face on mars," from the right angle, which I imagine is a joke (they both might be, for all I know).

I have no idea if they're "lunarians," but it's a logical guess at the moment, right? Perhaps the Age of the Gods ended by literally removing an essence (or essences) from "The Land" (the planet), banishing it into space. I still can't shake the feeling that they invoked Zodiark's name in FFXIV to link it to the thirteenth and youngest god, but I can't yet make all of these theories play nice without building a house of cards.

I don't really know what to make of it, yet, myself.

[Nalien]

Even though IX is by no means a bad game, its timing and setting was too off to be well-remembered.

Eh, all I'm saying is that this is how you introduce Alexander, not... Whatever we have... Though I guess Alexander is kinda a Final Fantasy IX reference at the moment... The Enigma Codex seems vital to his proper summoning, and it appears to have been broken, much like the Alexanders gem in IX... Shame that gives us a functionally retarded Primal while we wait for 3.4 though, I look forward to the day when he actually has crawled out of that river, but in the mean time he is probably the most lackluster incarnation of Alexander ever...

Plebs may not remember the best Final Fantasy, but I certainly do. Seems odd to have references to the really old ones (lets face it, most were introduced to the series with VI or VII), but practically nothing for IX... We have Firion stuff for crying out loud... I didn't bat an eyelash at Clouds get up, Final Fantasy VII is insanely overrated and I understand that, but Firion? Seriously?!

So much potential for Final Fantasy IX content in this game... I already think the AP system in that game is the perfect way to introduce a more in depth stats system (AP was Spiritbonding before Spiritbonding was cool), then you've got the side-content in that game... I guess the Mail Mog quests were meant to invoke memories of MogNet, but that's about all I can recall XIV doing... Chocobo Hot and Cold? Festival of the Hunt? Heck, I'd consider my Wind-up Sun a reference to the Friendly Monsters of IX, but they never followed it up with more... Slap Stellazzio coins in this game and I'll lose my mind. Seriously, how do we have so much Firion, yet not even something simple like a performance group named Tantalus? Gubal Library gets off easy for referencing my other favorite Final Fantasy (V), but you can bet I'm still peeved about Tantarian not showing up... My hopes rest on the hard mode for that...

Arg, the injustices of this world...

I don't really know what to make of it, yet, myself.

Certainly an interesting find, can't believe I didn't notice it until now... Still doesn't really explain what Darklander was doing up there though... I suspect Darklander is Derplander, having learned whatever truth Elidibus alluded to all those years ago, and the lunar surface is part of that truth... Similar to how Estinien couldn't deny the truth about Ishgard having visited Zenith, perhaps Derplander couldn't deny the truth Elidibus presented after a lunar stroll...

(I'm still hoping he was just looking for Hummingways to try to shed the name Derplander, though)

[Anonymoose]

I'm still pretty confused about the popular theory origins (which probably means you're right given the last few patches, lmao), but let me see if I have the foundational framework right:

Before the Calamity, Derplander was both a unique individual and a representative of adventurers. But, afterwards, the unique individual Derplander joined Elidibus and became Darklander, but the Derplander aesthetic is still used as the representative of adventurers as DRGlander? So, in that theoretical framework they used to be one in the same, but no longer are?

Derplander (Person + Icon)

↳Darklander (Person)
↳DRGlander (Icon)

And this contrasts to Enkidoh's theory, where Derplander has been COPIED by dark aether?

Derplander (Person + Icon) → DRGlander (Person + Icon)

↳Darklander (Copy)

[Nalien]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. There is still the possibility that Darklander is just completely separate, but then that just creates confusion IMO, I can't see why they'd make such an obvious connection (same appearance, same pre-Heavensward Jobs) if the intention is for the Warriors of Darkness to be entirely new characters...

I'm certainly more interested in the theory of Derplander becoming Darklander, just because that seems far more interesting from a narrative point. It effectively gives us another swing at the same ball Edda was throwing; A look at how our existence has impacted, perhaps negatively, other adventurer's. Not to mention fits nicely with what Elidibus has been alluding to all this time...

That said, having some form of copy is perhaps the better route, just to avoid confusion with promotional material... Plenty of ways they could even create a copy, I mean we already have Clones, and an Alchemist recently figured that out (not that I think the Ascians would need to figure it out, if anything I'd suspect they gave Allag the technology in the first place...). I've also got a nice little theory that may or may not be a Final Fantasy XI reference... Remember when Ramuh mused on the origins of Light and Darkness, and man? I'm just going to guess that man is made up of both Light and Darkness, since it's a fairly common trope... Final Fantasy XI had a similar plot point, with the Zilart actively attempting to remove Darkness from individuals... My XI lore is incredibly rusty these days, but I'm fairly certain this went some way to the creation of the Warriors of the Crystal, who basically were the Warriors of Darkness... Same thing here, except Louisoix inadvertently did it when he cast his spell on the group (which I imagine is of a similar grade to the spell Y'shtola resorted to... So with its own risks), or that 5 year gap gave the Ascians time to do so. We'd then effectively have pre-Calamity Derplander (Light+Dark), then post-Calamity Lightlander (who is now a Dragoon) and Darklander, to continue the current nomenclature . Then of course, is the possibility of a alternate world where Darklander is from, where things played out differently, which I only mention because the Heavensward trailer put the idea in my head (he arrives at Ishgard, alone, and in the middle of a battle, he then defends Ishgard from an assault, rather than traveling to Dravania to prevent the assault...), I imagine that is more down to the time the trailer was first drafted, though.

One thing I have wondered though, is what is their motivation? Three things from the trail;

The Paladin attacks Y'shtola.
Darklander fights Ravana.
Someone (I assume Darklander) says "So you are the Warrior of Light, the savior of Eorzea", and his tone is not a pleasant one...

Now, ignore the point about Y'shtola for a minute... They're fighting Ravana? Err... Why do we have a problem with them then? They're doing our job for us, let me play Lord of Verminion while they take care of Primals! No, I suspect something else is going on here... If they're putting down Primals, why clash with Y'shtola? Why the disdain for the Warrior of Light? I think Y'shtola may have the answer already. Right now, she comments on how we put down one Primal, only for another to take its place... Perhaps their disdain for us, and willingness to fight us, comes from the fact that we've not really been dealing with Primals? We've just perpetuated a cycle of resummoning...

My favorite of topics though... Yes, this could be the lead up to Free Company Primal Summoning! Been saying it since 2.4 and I'll keep saying it dammit! Why do we visit Gnath lands and encounter the Warriors of Darkness in the first place? Answer; Something was happening in Gnath lands. What? Warriors of Darkness were harassing Gnath. Why? So they'd summon Ravana. If we're dealing with Primals incorrectly, why attack us because of it? Why actively be hostile against us? No, I think they were there to get Gnath to summon Ravana so they could claim Ravana as their own... Why? Who knows, but that would certainly be motivation for Y'shtola to end up clashing with them.

A more... grounded... theory, perhaps, would be that they're doing exactly what we've been told they're doing; Restoring equilibrium. They're going around undoing (good) things we've done... We bested Ravana, so he gave his word that he wouldn't attack the nearby dragons? Those dragons are now arguably Ishgards best hope of forging peace... Yep, Warriors of Darkness kicks Ravana down and tells him to resume that conquest, weakening Hraesvelgrs brood and thus strengthening Nidhoggs...

That said... I want Free Company Summoning already! Elidibus spoke of having to deal with the consequences of Lahabreas failures... What consequences? That Ysayle turned out to be an ally? That Thordan VII showed us how easily a Primal can deal with Ascians? Does our might encroach upon the realm of gods because we might finally be thinking "Hey, if we summon a Primal, it wont roam free and be a danger and blight on the land, we can just summon it for a second to blast Ascians!", what better way to put us off that idea than to send a group of jerks to do just that (and remove any Ascians Elidibus might disagree with hmmm) to reinforce the idea that it's an evil thing to do, and undo any positive enforcement for that scheme our time with Ysayle may have offered...

You know what's funny? I had a much better post written up, saying basically all of this, that I apparently forgot about when I went to check Elidibus' moon dialog when I noticed the statue...

[Cilia]

snip

I'd like more IX references too, I'm just saying I understand why it's not brought up often or referenced despite the fact that it was a very good game. It doesn't get the love it deserves, I'll give ya that, but it just lacks the memorability of some other titles, especially since it will forever be in the shadow of X.

I'd try to avoid something like AP stat boosts, though, because that was basically what the Alexandrite part of the Zodiac Weapons was. Sorta. Everyone will criticize you if you don't optimize, if you're stuck with certain boosts you don't perform optimally, etc. Minigames and stuff would be neat; tie the Stellazio in to a quest or something, guys! Like... relic weapon quest!

A Memoria-style dungeon / raid would be amazing, but they'd probably have to save that for the very end of the game since I get the feeling Eorzea's / Hydaelyn's history far back spills a lot of beans about the game's overarching myth arc. I think I remember somewhere they said they want XIV to last 10 years, so... keep waitin'.

The moon rock resembling the Zodiark statue from the Chrysalis is an interesting find... though, it doesn't really advance any of my hypotheses, which I will keep to myself due to their fragility and verbosity. Suffice to say that even if that moon rock is a broken-down Zodiark statue it doesn't affect one of my hypotheses since I've considered the fact that Elidibus and Darklander were standing on the moon to be an important thing in and of itself.

[Fenral]

I spotted precisely one FFIX reference, and it was rather forcefully proven to be a pure coincidence arising from both characters being references to the same FFIII character. Did they really have to give him a tail, though...? Eh, I've said all this before and nobody wants to hear it. (Leaving this here, since it matters to discussion, but doesn't need to be dissected further, so please don't fight me on this.)

That aside, sure FFIX made pretty solid use of what came before, but I think it's more important that it was aware of everything that came after what came before. The aforementioned FFIII reference goes through the same basic destined amnesiac BS, only to instead tell the ancient civilization that birthed him to shove it; the badass female general isn't totally unmanned by love; and that oh-so-glorious reverse-Faris that Garnet pulls. There was even a moment during Ramuh's trial that acknowledged, and optionally apologized for, the rather unfortunate handling of character death in FFII.