So its 0-2 in the male female glamour department, yay?

[Welsper59]

While male numbers may not equal female numbers in real life, this is a game and not real life. So when they design outfits, they can choose to focus more on females, more on males, or equally on both. What they have done so far is focus more of female exclusive outfits. In the case of the Thavnarian sets: One was female focused, one male focused, but they made the first female specific and the second female equippable, instead of male specific. So the effort was there on both outfits, but one was locked to a gender. That is what I'm saying with numbers.



That is not remotely what I am saying. I'm saying that when they put out new outfits, that they can either be equipped by both genders (altered or not), or have one for each gender.

You may not care about most outfits, or the style of them, but you have the options. Males do not compared to the females, and that is what I'm talking about. Style is subjective, what you may think looks terrible someone else may love. Again, its not about what is male specific in look, but what male characters can equip. I don't care what looks masculine or feminine. I want to be able to wear it.



There are plenty of current outfits that people don't like already in the game. Some people hate tanks that wear swimsuit gear. There are people who think that skimpy cloths on both male and female characters look bad. The outfits still exist in the game, and its a fact of life that someone will have an outfit that someone else doesn't like.



But there is a large enough outcry that people are still talking about it and complaining about the lack of fair options. This is only one of the many threads that have been made over the past few weeks. So there is an interest in having different options.

Again, I agree that making the currently gender locked options unisex would be the best in my opinion, what I'm more upset about is the fact that there is a very obvious favoritism that I want to change.

Even in fantasy, RL has an influence on what one creates. That's why I mentioned that. We're talking about fashion here... things that are based upon sources for inspiration. We have MANY fantasy sourced outlets of glamour that are already used... literally. Design concepts of what is male and female do come from RL inspiration though. I mean, in fantasy, they could design it so that everything but genitalia is covered. A complete opposite. Due to RL impact however, they won't do this, and need to pull from what is RL sourced. Having said that, creating things male specific is quite difficult to do. There is SIGNIFICANTLY more to work with on female models than male. There's a multitude of reasons why male models tend to look and dress the same every single time, whereas women tend to have much more dynamic attire to model.

You know though, it'd end up being an unfair numbers advantage in the end with 100% unisex options. I mean, I'd opt for female characters to have the bare chest necklace-only glamour that males have, but uhh... not really an option for this game. And we kinda already have a ton of bikini top glamour for female characters as is. This is also where some of the ideas of making exclusive female gear comes from. My Vin Diesel example was to show that, even in the case of a pro-unisex option, some outfits that are clearly female aimed, just look HORRIBLE on men. I sincerely doubt that the numbers are the source of what people complain about when it comes to lack of male options.

Do you really think people would be content with a sea of terrible outfits for male, but the same outfit matches for female? I don't. It's the quality that people want the most. What's the point of wanting terrible options just to be kept near equal on numbers when you'd (almost) never use them? Sounds petty to me on that end. Argue for quality looks, that's what actually matters. Unisex options are great and all, but most themes just don't work for one gender over the other. In the end, people will complain that there's more focus on female tailored gear, not the fact that they have access to it. When the focus shifts from the numbers game to what they're actually going to get, the complaints will keep continuing. That's what my underlying point is. Numbers don't matter, it's the quality. The issue about that though, as I said, is the inspiration is lacking when it comes to unique male-focused glamour. It's not easy and, just like IRL, male fashion is mostly a continued repeat of itself, meaning there's not much point to waste time with it in the game.

It would certainly be interesting to have all female glamour be male accessible, but like I said earlier, inequality would still exist due to how certain male equips are not socially acceptable on females for a game like this. Making it acceptable would be pretty much an exact replica of existing gear as is, defeating the purpose of what made the male version unique and attractive to use. I don't think there's a single female equip that couldn't be worn by a male character, if it were made unisex, despite odd appearances. Kinda back to square one at that point, right? I'd hope you'd be making the same complaints you do now, if something like that happened... though there are just some things that are impossible to realistically win on.

Edit: I just remembered an example of unisex options allowed but met with my quality over quantity argument and the complaints to follow even if quantity is met. The All Saints' Wake gear this year. Unisex yet is "oddly" met with a lot of hate by (mostly) male characters. Hmm...

[Serilda]

they won't do this, and need to pull from what is RL sourced. Having said that, creating things male specific is quite difficult to do. There is SIGNIFICANTLY more to work with on female models than male. There's a multitude of reasons why male models tend to look and dress the same every single time, whereas women tend to have much more dynamic attire to model.

...are you saying they are favouring female characters because they are running out of ideas for making male-friendly costumes? There is so much male fashion available from the well of human history across the world that we'll never run out of inspiration, and that's only if they need to use real life clothing as a base in the first place. This is Square-Enix. They've made a fortune over the years coming up with appealing outfits for guys.

it'd end up being an unfair numbers advantage in the end with 100% unisex options. I mean, I'd opt for female characters to have the bare chest necklace-only glamour that males have, but uhh... not really an option for this game. And we kinda already have a ton of bikini top glamour for female characters as is.

If they want to do even more work and open up everything to both genders, that's great, but things like the necklace-only male glamours already have direct female-only equivalents with bikini tops (with arbitrarily different names) so they could just combine them into single items. I'm personally advocating that they equalise the numbers of items available so we each have the same number of equippables, nothing more. That would be fair.

This is also where some of the ideas of making exclusive female gear comes from. My Vin Diesel example was to show that, even in the case of a pro-unisex option, some outfits that are clearly female aimed, just look HORRIBLE on men.

That's your personal opinion. You believe that people would recoil from Vin Diesel in a bunny suit, yet it's a fact that the Chippendales are known across the world. What you think would look 'horrible' on men might be someone else's favourite look; why is your opinion more important than ours?

Do you really think people would be content with a sea of terrible outfits for male, but the same outfit matches for female? I don't. It's the quality that people want the most. What's the point of wanting terrible options just to be kept near equal on numbers when you'd (almost) never use them? Sounds petty to me on that end. Argue for quality looks, that's what actually matters. Unisex options are great and all, but most themes just don't work for one gender over the other.

I'd be more content than I am seeing the female characters getting more and more exclusive goodies in every big patch while we sit around getting told that we're not socially acceptable human beings for wanting to dress our characters a certain way, that's for sure. You're right that it would be a shame to get complete trash, but we've done the work and that's not what we're missing out on; the Thavnairian bustier and bunny sets are two of the most popular outfits in the entire game and easily adaptable into nice pieces for men with minimal graphics work. We do pay the same subscription fees as people with female characters, therefore we have the right to complain when we're being short changed. Repeatedly.

I don't think there's a single female equip that couldn't be worn by a male character, if it were made unisex, despite odd appearances.

Cool, let's aim for that, then?

Edit: I just remembered an example of unisex options allowed but met with my quality over quantity argument and the complaints to follow even if quantity is met. The All Saints' Wake gear this year. Unisex yet is "oddly" met with a lot of hate by (mostly) male characters. Hmm...

It's hated because it's not a complete item like the girls' set and it's yet another example of how little the current design team blatantly favours female characters, at a time when we're getting reminders all too frequently. Set aside from the other issues I quite like the boots, gloves, hat and broom, and I love the overall theme of the event. Please don't attempt to derail this thread by implying that things could have been worse than what we got.

[Eloah]

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I'm not sure how this will sound, but based on everything you've said it somewhat feels like you are missing the point, somewhat. People aren't upset that female only gear exists, they are upset that their aren't an equal/equivalent amount of male specific gear, and that gear designed to be the "male" version are being made unisex. And while you are correct in stating that the inspiration for a lot of the glamour gear comes from real life, remember that in real life we aren't limited like we are in the game; we arent "told" we can't wear a shirt because it's female only. Remember, there are plenty of males fashions all over the world that some cultures might view as "feminine", like how Scotland has kilts.

And on a side note you mentioned that male most male fashion is a copy/paste affair, in this or other words, but I don't think people would mind a few "copy/paste" outfits as long as they were male specific, and slightly different drom one another, like maybe a hoodie? Or a bandage outfit; which reminds me of a mummy, lol.