Any word on what is causing a handful of us to lag?

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Ummm... "We have received a lot of positive feedback from many European players reporting an improved game experience since the launch of the European data center. However, we understand that some users have begun to experience latency/connection issues over the last week since the launch on 20th October."

Notice it says European players and European data center. I have contacted them in game and out... the only response anyone gets is from you... who appears to be nothing but an SE apologist. I have played a lot of different games on a lot of different ISPs and never had an issue like this. Me fixing the problem with third party options that cost money is not an option. Me having to deal with my isp to try and fix network issues in another country is not an option.

I wouldn't accept this type of issue from any other online content provider and I sure as hell won't start accepting it from SE.

Okay, then bye? Do you want someone to agree with you or something? Venting about how you're not going to sub anymore doesn't change anything.

If you don't want to sub anymore that's your problem. Don't expect the forum masses to become sympathetic

[RocheKat]

Okay, then bye? Do you want someone to agree with you or something? Venting about how you're not going to sub anymore doesn't change anything.

If you don't want to sub anymore that's your problem. Don't expect the forum masses to become sympathetic

So you are OK with paying for a product but not being able to use it? It is this kind of thinking that allows businesses to get away with the crap they do. Game developers are among the worst offenders of producing crap and charging people for it. This fanboy style defense is exactly why they get away with it and I see it on every forum of every game that has some kind of major issues.

I am not venting about how I don't want to sub anymore. I am venting about how their awful support is going to lose them my money... making sure it is clear to them in multiple formats.

[worldofneil]

So you are OK with paying for a product but not being able to use it?

The product (servers) are however working just fine. It's your connection to the servers that has the problem. Your Internet provider chooses how you get to their server and it's their choice of routes which puts you down a path that causes lag on route.

Square Enix have no control over how you are routed to their server, neither do they have any control of any of the nodes on the Internet not managed by them (i.e. all of them before you get to their server!).

SE created a thread so that players can leave feedback and so they can be seen to be actually doing something, but realistically there isn't anything they can do outside of attempting to contact them and saying "Your users are having problems connecting to us, can you pretty please route around the problem networks?". Your ISP likely won't even listen to them because Square Enix isn't their customer. You are.

There is unfortunately no quick fix, but if you look in that feedback thread the same ISP names keep popping up (Orange being the main one!) and the amount of people who haven't actually reported it to their ISP...

Yes it might be Square Enix's game, but you need to talk to your ISP. If enough customers actually did that then they might actually pay attention and do something.

Square Enix cannot fix this, your ISP must do it.

[RocheKat]

The product (servers) are however working just fine. It's your connection to the servers that has the problem. Your Internet provider chooses how you get to their server and it's their choice of routes which puts you down a path that causes lag on route.

Square Enix have no control over how you are routed to their server, neither do they have any control of any of the nodes on the Internet not managed by them (i.e. all of them before you get to their server!).

SE created a thread so that players can leave feedback and so they can be seen to be actually doing something, but realistically there isn't anything they can do outside of attempting to contact them and saying "Your users are having problems connecting to us, can you pretty please route around the problem networks?". Your ISP likely won't even listen to them because Square Enix isn't their customer. You are.

There is unfortunately no quick fix, but if you look in that feedback thread the same ISP names keep popping up (Orange being the main one!) and the amount of people who haven't actually reported it to their ISP...

Yes it might be Square Enix's game, but you need to talk to your ISP. If enough customers actually did that then they might actually pay attention and do something.

Square Enix cannot fix this, your ISP must do it.

So just a coincidence that it started the day they made major changes to their data center?

[worldofneil]

So just a coincidence that it started the day they made major changes to their data center?

You mean the day they move the data centre from Canada to Germany? No of course that's not a coincidence, no one is saying that it is...

The server you connect/play on has moved 1/4 round the world. Your path across the Internet to the new location is completely different to your path to the old server. That was going to happen wherever SE set up the new servers.

If you think of it in physical terms, if you had a friend in Canada and they moved to Germany, if you were visiting them you would go in a completely different direction (down different roads/air paths). This is exactly the same. Your friend moved house, they have no control over the quality of the roads you have to take to get to their new house, they just moved. The road quality is not their problem and nothing to do with them. The local authorities would be the ones responsible for helping to make your journey smoother (or in Internet terms, your Internet Provider).

Just because SE set up new servers in a new country, still doesn't mean they control your ISP routing on how *you* get to the servers. I don't know how people can expect them to have total control over the Internet...

[Raist]

So just a coincidence that it started the day they made major changes to their data center?

No... there is a ton of activity on the internet at any given moment, and we become more and more dependent on the internet daily for so many aspects of our lives--just streaming alone has ramped up our consumption drastically with all the apps for things like sports and news, not to mention things like Netflix. You are also in the Great Lakes area if I remember right? Which means you are getting routed through areas that routinely exhibit problems. And, as I mentioned, the peering agreements your ISP has in place are weighted heavily towards Level3 and AT&T--the two most frequently reported ISP's at the moment. Didn't I mention that in my previous post?

And no... that does not make me an apologist for SE. The facts are the facts...if anything, I'm more a realist I guess? There is documentation spanning back into the 90's over these issues. Filings with the FCC. Forum posts all over the place for various services--and not all of them games. There is a known infrastructure problem in the US...it is why the Net Neutrality movement started in the first place. The problem is people flat out refuse to hold their ISP accountable...when they are the ones that contributed most to the situation we are in. Think about it...how much has the bandwidth increased since Clinton was President? (back then the premium residential was typically no more than 3Mbits, 6 and 10 were still the typical max when Bush Jr. took over) How many times have the standards been revamped? (back then, DOCSIS 1.x was deployed and 2.0 was coming in...3.1 is now deployed). Would it surprise you to know that some local ISP's are still using equipment that has not gone beyond a standard established between 1998 and 2000?

The internet can go down at any point for any reason...just like a flight can get delayed/cancelled, traffic can get jammed, or your mail/packages don't arrive on time. That doesn't mean it is the fault of the hotel you made your reservation with, the coliseum hosting that sporting event, or Amazon that shipped your package on time. It is because something happened in transit to cause your plans to get monkeyed up.

[Raist]

So you are OK with paying for a product but not being able to use it? It is this kind of thinking that allows businesses to get away with the crap they do. Game developers are among the worst offenders of producing crap and charging people for it. This fanboy style defense is exactly why they get away with it and I see it on every forum of every game that has some kind of major issues.

I am not venting about how I don't want to sub anymore. I am venting about how their awful support is going to lose them my money... making sure it is clear to them in multiple formats.

And you keep paying your ISP for their service, which apparently may be failing you. Why aren't you putting your money where your mouth is with them?

I and others did with TWC here about two years ago (for this game, have gone to them off and on for nearly 20 years now with this sort of thing...and it has always worked). We actually found a DOCSIS 1.1 CMTS in play at our headend...and the outrage ensued (it was a device from 1998). The CMTS is basically what "terminates" our cable transmission so it can get onto a normal network (data on cable is packed differently, as it is designed for video transmission). Basically, it was only capable of speeds less than half of what was being pushed into the market---and it wasn't even able to keep up with 15Mbit connections anymore because everyone is trying to move to the higher tiers and exhausting it's throughput--not to mention it was only bonding 4 channels when what they were selling calls for 8 channel modems.

The point is... they were caught deliberately overselling and under-supporting their market, and we held them to task for it.