Tank adjustments we can agree on?

[rawker]

I just had a silly idea i'd still throw out here. What if DRK's delirium blade has an additional mdef down while PLD's RoH had def down debuff? That would make DRK+PLD viable tank duo, right?

[Brannigan]

Monsters don't have defense, but if you went the other way (vuln up) then it becomes too strong for full party dps.

[rawker]

SE can tweak it so that the Physical/Magical Vulnerability Up debuff is at an acceptable level.

[eagledorf]

Personally, I don't think tanks should have that kind of utility. You end up juggling people around to optimize and it's a pain in the butt (you'll end up making decisions about who tanks what based on which DPS it's easier for rather than which tank is better for what). I don't think there's any way you could make it not overpowered anyway.

Type-specific DPS buffs on tanks would be annoying. It's already bad enough with MCH auto-buffing physical damage and BRD buffing magic damage more and longer and buffing healer damage with RoD and BRD being buffed less than MCH is by having a DRG in the party and...

It's ok because MCH and BRD are fairly balanced all around and are ranged, but adding tanks to the mix...that would be awful.

[rawker]

With my suggestion, a tank can focus more on tanking and getting beefier(since there are people who actually like to be damage sponges) without hurting the raid's overall dps and still making the tight dps checks that we might still get.

[Shurrikhan]

Personally, I don't think tanks should have that kind of utility. You end up juggling people around to optimize and it's a pain in the butt (you'll end up making decisions about who tanks what based on which DPS it's easier for rather than which tank is better for what). I don't think there's any way you could make it not overpowered anyway.

Type-specific DPS buffs on tanks would be annoying. It's already bad enough with MCH auto-buffing physical damage and BRD buffing magic damage more and longer and buffing healer damage with RoD and BRD being buffed less than MCH is by having a DRG in the party and...

It's ok because MCH and BRD are fairly balanced all around and are ranged, but adding tanks to the mix...that would be awful.

This. I like that WAR can assist the dps of other tanks, but I'm okay with NIN/ROG sharing type with a tank-granted DPS-improving debuff only because it's something of a specialist class. Throwing additional DPS-improving debuff types onto each would just make stacking pure casters or pure physical even more lucrative, at which point either the Def-down PLD suggestion or mDef-down DRK suggestion would go to waste. It's bad enough that Foe and Army go to waste as much as they do on a job design penalized just for having those support options in their repertoire.

With my suggestion, a tank can focus more on tanking and getting beefier(since there are people who actually like to be damage sponges) without hurting the raid's overall dps and still making the tight dps checks that we might still get.

That's honestly my other issue with this. Bringing a tank should be a real decision, imo, especially when, say, overgearing content. The enemy-manipulation and reduced healing is already enough to warrant their presence evenly with a dps. The only time I'd want to see a 4-man with multiple tanks be viable is if no-tanking were also viable, and both of those shifts would require more underlying changes than their development costs are worth for now.

Actually, the animation for running with a big weapon is pretty much accurate. Imagine holding a 75 pound sword. Now imagine running with it. Yes, it's going to look/feel awkward. Ideally, when running, one would put away a greatsword or greataxe.

*Imagining someone running with a buster blade held out in front of them Cloud-style* = *Imagining them chasing their sword in a poor attempt to keep the tip from falling*

Ever tried longsword fencing? People hang out in Hengen (Hanging Guard) at least as often as a simple middle stance.

Paladin should have the damage they have now with much greater utility. Stronger heals that can support group healing and maybe some interesting buffs. That should be the trade off to allow healers an easier time and give them freedom to buff and DPS.

The problem with this is the problem with any other stat race -- diminishing relative value. That, and 'true tank' stats (e.g. fending accs) provide nothing by which to improve Clemency, nor is the ability itself reliable or weavable enough to possibly serve those ends in its current state. It's more a problem of design than power.

[eagledorf]

Looks like PLD will be getting a TP adjustment.

Finally. Good thing it only took SE months to figure out a problem that was obvious to players at the preview stage of Heavensward's release (no, I'm not exaggerating. That JP thread I made about TP in my sig is from before 3.0 dropped when skill details first started coming out). At least they fixed that nasty potential Blood Weapon TP drain in the testing phase right? Oh wait...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯