/p Blood Price used, WHMs do not use Holy for 15 seconds <se.1>

[Imoen]

Raid Awareness! xD

Lol nope that's me being a dumb dumb because of all the tables flipped on my head during this.

He is leveling DRK though.

[Syzygian]

Lol nope that's me being a dumb dumb because of all the tables flipped on my head during this.

He is leveling DRK though.

I hope he reads tooltips and puts 2 and 2 together well. Maybe he'll gain some empathy when he winds up with a WHM in the DF.

[Imoen]

I got spinning chocobo's man, for real.

[RocheKat]

DD by itself (parrying) has no impact on BP returns. And I can easily just.. well.. not use my stun while I'm AoEing... or just use it anyway and cut my losses (a single hit of Blood Price from stunning a single mob out of many costing me an utterly negligible amount of MP). When a WHM uses holy and stuns 10 mobs however, that's 1000s of MP that just isn't happening now.

I fail to see why its bad that DRK just happens to get an additional reward from being hit and what point making such an argument has.

No idea why I listed DD... thinking it was evasion base and then thinking it gained evasion from DA. And no tanks do not want to get hit... your job is to control the fight and take as little damage as possible. The best way to do that is never get hit unless you are a Drk because you want to get hit sometimes. If there was a way for a tank to never get hit but still be the target of the critters that is exactly what they would all do (See also: Ninja FFXI).

Bolded: The argument is because Drk is the only tank of the three tanks that has three tools to get out of being hit at all and the only one to directly benefit from being hit (reprisal, low blow and blood price).

[Imoen]

That really isn't how most the tools work though, they reduce the damage or block or parry it. The hits are still connecting. Doesn't mean if BP is up you stand in red circles.

I'm sorry if I'm completely misunderstanding.

[Syzygian]

No idea why I listed DD... thinking it was evasion base and then thinking it gained evasion from DA. And no tanks do not want to get hit... your job is to control the fight and take as little damage as possible. The best way to do that is never get hit unless you are a Drk because you want to get hit sometimes. If there was a way for a tank to never get hit but still be the target of the critters that is exactly what they would all do (See also: Ninja FFXI).

Bolded: The argument is because Drk is the only tank of the three tanks that has three tools to get out of being hit at all and the only one to directly benefit from being hit (reprisal, low blow and blood price).

This is irrelevant. There is no evasion tank in FFXIV right now. All tanks are still getting hit, and a PLD and WAR have no way to "avoid" getting hit any more than a DRK does. As Imoen says, the hits are still connecting. You are GOING to get hit and take damage, your job is to manage/mitigate/self-heal it. And again Imoen clarifies; it doesn't mean if BP is up you stand in fire and get hit by AoEs. -_-

Right now getting hit in this game, if you are a tank, means you have aggro and you are succeeding at the basest fundamental of the job you rolled. SE has given us a tank that actually mechanically rewards you for having aggro. How is this not good design?

Yes it has tools to benefit from being hit and tools to avoid being hit. They are not mutually inclusive and there is no rule or mechanic that requires you to utilize them at the same time, and there is more than enough downtime to alternate between them. I'm still failing to see the argument of how this, in practice, negatively effects the job's playstyle or viability.

Please please please please please play the job or at least do more research before continuing to post...

[Imoen]

Low blow is off GCD 100 pot + stun so it increases your damage done and reduces the damage you take. It has chance to reset on parry which works well with DD (providing you don't use DA first and yet again screw with your own abilities) and in aoe pulls resets a lot. The point was that Drk has multiple tools to reduce the chance of being hit at all which goes against DP and low blow since you can't parry when you evade.

OH, I think I get what you are saying, well for dungeon runs there is usually, at least in the new dungeons, one mob in a pack that uses a special move or aoe that I would save low blow for when it comes out, I don't trust a parry LB proc to be ready for that moment, assuming people haven't already built up it's stun resist and it is still alive to use that ability.

As far as if you have multiple mobs, ya I mean I guess that is one way to play, I would generally focus on MP spending moves if BP is giving returns though, the reset for low blow it self requires a parry so if mobs are stunned it won't reset either.

LB is single target as well though, I mean, I guess theoretically if you got lucky and proc'd enough you could manage to stun every single monster in the pack. (With each lowering your chances of procing LB again.) Otherwise there is still going to be lots of things hitting you. Even so though, you want to be using GCD moves, and weaving OGCD moves between that so I mean you would have to be one hell of a speed clicker, to manage not only keeping up on GCD but also manage to hit LB every time it is available while cycling through every single target you have in the pack.

[Rahal]

snip.

Yeah my post was badly worded and written at 3am. Thanks for correcting me.

@Rahal
:O, I'm happy to admit I'm one of the idiots that didn't know BP works that way (Somebody else mentioned keeping BP for heavy damage phases, so I assumed it is determined by damage taken ).

Any idea what is the hard limit you can get hit per second?

I mean, 5% per mob hit seems to be a hell lotta MP recovered IMHO, wondering even if DRK and WHM locked horns (Holy and BP activated together), is the 8 seconds remaining on BP after the 7 second stun wore off not enough to recover the MP you used?

It's per hit so you actually want BP up for phases where you get smacked a whole bunch of times. Preys in Alex Savage 1 is the best example.

As I sad a long time ago, in this thread. It's easy to keep aggro from a Holybombing WHM. Holybomb is a sneeze compared to the AoE Threat a BLM, SMN and SCH can output. It's more painful when you have casters also out to win a Darwin Award and refuse to use Quelling Strikes until after the Holybomb

[Imoen]

It's more painful when you have casters also out to win a Darwin Award and refuse to use Quelling Strikes

^ pretty much that. especially when coupled with a really strong melee dps that doesn't aoe and instead decides to focus down one of them.

@Rahal
:O, I'm happy to admit I'm one of the idiots that didn't know BP works that way

I mean, 5% per mob hit seems to be a hell lotta MP recovered IMHO, wondering even if DRK and WHM locked horns (Holy and BP activated together), is the 8 seconds remaining on BP after the 7 second stun wore off not enough to recover the MP you used?

Not an idiot >.> (and my apologies on my earlier post, I completely misunderstood your intentions.)

And ya it is a crap ton of MP, pretty much God mode.

The thing people keep assuming though, is that BP went up at the exact moment the first holy went off. Everyone sees 15 Seconds and says ok well 7 stun minus 15, what if BP was already in place before the Holy came in? (aka Surprise holy/late holy)

Anyway just something to think about - I know you have already said when you do it, you activate it right away. Thus not the target audience.

[Kabooa]

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Show me where you put the 7 seconds (more realistically 5) seconds of stun where you don't get a minimum of 8 seconds.