If you could kill off one of the scions...

[Razem5791]

To Tenkuu

I don't really know if Thancred is growing fed up of Uldah's politics. Still, it is true that nobles there make things ugly out there. Limsa ? well a former pirate nation cannot erase it past and evolve to bring more of that kind in Limsa and you add beastmen troubles. In a way I agree with you about Gridania. Maybe It looks much less messed up however, they do have troubles and not thin : the way they act towards the Ala mighans because clearly you know they have tried to invade Gridania before being destroyed by the Empire. You should also remember problems like Haukke manor. And finally, one serious question : From all 3 countries, why does Odin always appear in Gridania ? Clearly there must be something about it.

[Belhi]

Gridania doesn't oppose Ala Mhigan refugees because they attempted to invade before. They do it cause the Elementals reject them and what the Elementals say goes in the Twelveswood. Odin probably appears in Gridania because he was sealed there. He seems to be looking for Urth which is odd since you would expect her to be dead by now.

That's not to say Gridania is perfect. It suffers from xenophobia more than the other nations still and its very conservative. To some extent there is good reason for that but they do take it too far. With everything going to hell it takes them a lot of work to placate the forest and the elementals so a lot of the time they tend to play it oversafe. Still you see attitudes towards groups like Keepers of the Moon and Duskwights that show Gridania's racism is still there.

[Razem5791]

It suffers from xenophobia more than the other nations still and its very conservative.

There's some truth in that. U can see how the guards treat us when we enter as a lvl 1 conj, lanc or arch in Gridania. Thx to Miounne, they go away. About the ala mighans, I wonder if the Gridanians can freely put the elementals rejection as the main reason why they oppose them. Based on the Ala mighan history, it took Gridania, Uldah and Limsa to push them back. It takes some toll on a population morale. They must have felt that Ala Mighans see them as a weak and easy nation to invade back then otherwise they would have found a way to invade Uldah or Limsa since they had some serious technology knowledge.

[Belhi]

There's some truth in that. U can see how the guards treat us when we enter as a lvl 1 conj, lanc or arch in Gridania. Thx to Miounne, they go away. About the ala mighans, I wonder if the Gridanians can freely put the elementals rejection as the main reason why they oppose them. Based on the Ala mighan history, it took Gridania, Uldah and Limsa to push them back. It takes some toll on a population morale. They must have felt that Ala Mighans see them as a weak and easy nation to invade back then otherwise they would have found a way to invade Uldah or Limsa since they had some serious technology knowledge.

Well the Ul'dah opening has a group of brass blades try to frame the merchant your traveling with for carrying contraband. I think that's worse than just being rude and stand offish.

The elementals are a very real threat though. They don't screw around. The Greenwrath in 1.0 was seriously dangerous. A group of elementals literally vaporised a group of Wood Wailers after getting pissed off. To be fair to the elementals, their trust with mortals is probably rather thin after the 5th Astral Era and at least they aren't going to flood the world again.

As for the Ala Mhigans, there are actually Ala Mhigans that have been accepted. One of the quest givers at that point is a settled Ala Mhigan as is one of the Wood Wailer captains from the Carpenter story quests. The Gridanians in that situation weren't being mean. They were simply stating that their hands were tied. The problem the Gridanians often have is that their tree hugging and weirdly pious treatment of the forest seems heartless to outsiders because most outsiders don't understand how big a deal the Elementals are, which is also why a lot of Gridanians are naturally wary of outsiders. If Outsiders piss off the Elementals, the Gridanians will have to deal with the fallout of it too.

[Kallera]

snip

First thing Urianger did i remember was speak cryptic and call up raptors to "test" me. It was cool and all, but didn't endear me to him. Turned out he became interesting later though, when he wasn't calling up raptors at all.

I get that they are important characters. At the same time, that doesn't mean I, as a player, have to like them all the time, or even like them through 2.0. Just means that Kallera(the character) has a better opinion of them than i do.

As i said, even including some characters as fellow combatants doesn't save my opinion of them every time. I couldn't care less about thancred, for example, and a summoner Tataru would just be wierd.

What I'm saying is I don't want to be a Scion forever. Off them, have an ideological break with them, go on sabbatical somewhere, whatever.

But I had a lot of fun when it all didn't feel like the 2.x scion routine in 3.0's msq.

[Tenkuu]

Finally I meet someone that understands me ! My feelings aswell about the Scions. Unlike any character I met in WOW (I quote WOW since I've been there for 10 years), I grew supportive to many NPCs in FF14 a realm reborn. Even if at time, they might act a bit childish, still I kinda like them. I was so devastated when they died at Uldah.

I'm pretty sure no one is dead, and on that topic, Nanamo better get her ass in gear and do something to try to find the remaining ones. Either way, having played other MMOs, I've never felt like sticking around and actually paying for a game other than Runescape, and when it became 3.0 it became quite an awful game to play with more lag than ever and a few reworked areas that I really hated. Until FFXIV, and then even though its fee was more than twice the price of Runescape's, it felt so much worth it to be in this game. The music is better, the plot is better, the scenery is far better, the random minor NPCs are better, and you form such a personal connection with the major NPC characters, all around I could not ask for a better game. Also, to me, the entire point of FFXIV's NPCs being interesting is how human they are: they have their personality quirks, they mess up sometimes, they do some interesting things when they're back home and they definitely have their own opinions on everything.

I don't really know if Thancred is growing fed up of Uldah's politics. Still, it is true that nobles there make things ugly out there. Limsa ? well a former pirate nation cannot erase it past and evolve to bring more of that kind in Limsa and you add beastmen troubles. In a way I agree with you about Gridania. Maybe It looks much less messed up however, they do have troubles and not thin : the way they act towards the Ala mighans because clearly you know they have tried to invade Gridania before being destroyed by the Empire. You should also remember problems like Haukke manor. And finally, one serious question : From all 3 countries, why does Odin always appear in Gridania ? Clearly there must be something about it.

Well, in my opinion at least two things point to that being the case: when you saw him in an Echo taking place shortly after he'd been exiled in 1.0, he acted generally annoyed, and during the banquet held in our honor at the end of 2.55, he was off on his own with a girl rather than enjoying the festivities with the other Scions. There is also the fact that in Nanamo's Tales from the Calamity, especially in the japanese version, he speaks to her in a very casual and friendly tone, which suggests that he doesn't like all the fakeness of politics and formalities.

[Quenn]

Alphinaud. Can't stand the guy. Just got to the end of Realm Reborn before moving to Patch 3.0. Imagine how annoyed I am.

[Tenkuu]

First thing Urianger did i remember was speak cryptic and call up raptors to "test" me. It was cool and all, but didn't endear me to him. Turned out he became interesting later though, when he wasn't calling up raptors at all.

Considering that he doesn't exactly set out to be your friend at that point but rather is just buying time for the other Scions, that makes sense. Given what they do, it's normal that they wouldn't be quick to trust anyone.

I get that they are important characters. At the same time, that doesn't mean I, as a player, have to like them all the time, or even like them through 2.0. Just means that Kallera(the character) has a better opinion of them than i do.

Oh of course, but most of the time they're really quite endearing to me. Even their screw-ups are interesting. It's really no surprise that your character would have a high opinion of them though, since they are in essence her support group. You would understand nothing without their research and explanations, and when fighting isn't all that there is to do, they're the ones who figure out solutions to other problems.

As i said, even including some characters as fellow combatants doesn't save my opinion of them every time. I couldn't care less about thancred, for example, and a summoner Tataru would just be wierd.

I suppose you could say that Thancred is a love or hate character. More than just his general friendliness, what I love most about him is his bluntness and playful character. He obviously doesn't take himself too seriously but is still a hard worker who is well known among his friends for his skill.

What I'm saying is I don't want to be a Scion forever. Off them, have an ideological break with them, go on sabbatical somewhere, whatever.

We did just take a break from the majority of them, but contractually speaking, we are tied to them, after all. Also, the player does not have the skills necessary to push the plot forward on their own. This reinforces the idea that it's a team effort with the Scions. They expect you to do the heavy lifting but they will provide you with all of the intelligence and research.

But I had a lot of fun when it all didn't feel like the 2.x scion routine in 3.0's msq.

For me it was pretty much the exact opposite. I felt like we were dragging our feet and meddling where we didn't belong, not to mention enabling a sense of learned helplessness in the Ishgardians by doing everything for them. It also felt like we randomly jumped from one plot point to the next without much logic, ie the whole getting involved just because we happened to be there rather than because we had actual cause to do so. I feel like the other Scions would have provided the shades of grey this situation desperately needed.

[Alisa180]

I wouldn't kill off any of the Scions, personally. My least favorite of the group is Papalymo, so maybe him, except he's tied to Yda who I really like (I've always been a fan of 'out there' characters) so probably couldn't get him killed off without seriously affecting her...So, yeah.

We did just take a break from the majority of them, but contractually speaking, we are tied to them, after all. Also, the player does not have the skills necessary to push the plot forward on their own. This reinforces the idea that it's a team effort with the Scions. They expect you to do the heavy lifting but they will provide you with all of the intelligence and research.

I feel obligated to respond to this with a relevant quote:

Alphinaud (After requesting you accompany him to the first meeting with Ser Aymeric):
...Mayhap you feel this to be a waste of your talents, which could doubtless be put to nobler use? If so, I should remind you that more good can be accomplished with the stroke of a pen than the thrust of a sword.
If my many “adventures” in diplomacy have taught me anything, it is the importance of humoring those who have something one wants.
Not every victory is won on a battlefield, my friend. 'Tis the lot of legendary heroes to be paraded about from time to time.

Say what you will about Alphinaud, but he's one of *the* primary drivers of the plot from 2.3 and into 3.0. Like the whole 'road trip' with himself, the WoL, Einstinein and Ysayle was put in motion by his idea to try treating with the dragons to stop the incoming invasion. He implies here that the WoL isn't very good with 'political' matters, being more of a fighter (fitting, since the WoL doesn't talk much and is an adventurer first and foremost). Hence, Alphinaud is the one who does most of the talking for the WoL, and effectively making him our main proxy for interacting with the 'political' sides of the plot.

(I'm also biased because Alphinaud is one of my favorite characters, though I also understand the hate behind him.)

Not to mention while the WoL is the one who actually fights the primals, actually *getting* to the primal tends to be another matter. The prime example of this is in 2.4, where a chunk of the plot was dedicated to figuring out how to get you into the Akh Afah Amphitheater to fight Shiva.

[Tenkuu]

I wouldn't kill off any of the Scions, personally. My least favorite of the group is Papalymo, so maybe him, except he's tied to Yda who I really like (I've always been a fan of 'out there' characters) so probably couldn't get him killed off without seriously affecting her...So, yeah.

Well, I think Y'shtola is probably my least favorite because it doesn't really feel like she has a personality other than acting cold most of the time. Papalymo and Yda are always entertaining together.

I feel obligated to respond to this with a relevant quote:

Alphinaud (After requesting you accompany him to the first meeting with Ser Aymeric):
...Mayhap you feel this to be a waste of your talents, which could doubtless be put to nobler use? If so, I should remind you that more good can be accomplished with the stroke of a pen than the thrust of a sword.
If my many “adventures” in diplomacy have taught me anything, it is the importance of humoring those who have something one wants.
Not every victory is won on a battlefield, my friend. 'Tis the lot of legendary heroes to be paraded about from time to time.

Say what you will about Alphinaud, but he's one of *the* primary drivers of the plot from 2.3 and into 3.0. Like the whole 'road trip' with himself, the WoL, Einstinein and Ysayle was put in motion by his idea to try treating with the dragons to stop the incoming invasion. He implies here that the WoL isn't very good with 'political' matters, being more of a fighter (fitting, since the WoL doesn't talk much and is an adventurer first and foremost). Hence, Alphinaud is the one who does most of the talking for the WoL, and effectively making him our main proxy for interacting with the 'political' sides of the plot.

Yup, exactly. But then again, it's pretty obvious from your few dialogue choices that the extent of your talents outside of fights is to be the supportive friend (or badass or moody silent hero depending on what you choose). Any investigating you do is instigated and directed by others, and when someone has a great idea, politically or otherwise, you follow and support them into it but you have no real input unless you're specifically asked for it. It's not that the Scions think you have nothing to offer in that respect, but rather that they know where your strengths lie and take full advantage of them by positioning you in the best possible situations for you. Really, more than anything they help you to grow by allowing you to show your full potential while they take care of the unpleasant and boring stuff for you.

(I'm also biased because Alphinaud is one of my favorite characters, though I also understand the hate behind him.)

On my alt, I've spoken with a japanese player about her dislike of Alphinaud. For her it's just that she's not just interested in seeing a character's growth. As for myself, I found that Alphinaud can come off as arrogant right from the beginning, but then again I can admire that he is a confident young man who has admitted to at least one of his flaws (ie at first thinking that Eorzea didn't deserve to be saved from the Garleans) and has obviously changed overtime. I see people calling him insensitive over the whole matter with Minfilia's mother, and saying that he's trying to out her, but really, Minfilia was making a bad decision influenced solely by her emotions with regards to the move to Mor Dhona. As far as him trying to out Minfilia goes though, I don't see it. He defers to her where necessary and makes his mind known when he feels it's important. In the first place, although Minfilia is a good leader, she tends to be led by her emotions quite a bit and doesn't exactly speak out strongly. I like Alphinaud too, though it's true he comes off as a bit headstrong at times. Actually, a lot of his personality quirks remind me of Thancred, who's my favorite.

Not to mention while the WoL is the one who actually fights the primals, actually *getting* to the primal tends to be another matter. The prime example of this is in 2.4, where a chunk of the plot was dedicated to figuring out how to get you into the Akh Afah Amphitheater to fight Shiva.

This is exactly what I meant when I said that the investigating and intelligence is left to others. Not even your everyday little group of Scions can handle everything by themselves and need their contacts from all over the place to help them out with various matters. You obviously can't be a one-man/one-woman team because it's impossible for you to do everything and know everything. Also important to keep in mind is that the Scions *are* experts as their Sharlayan tattoos attest.