Just got wheeling thrust.... Can someone explain the point of it to me?

[JackFross]

Not to mention how many people here are apparently professional game designers.

Pretty much.

I dabbled lightly in game design a few years back, working as the lead developer on a forum's in-browser, text-based RPG. Keeping things balanced when new gear or skils are introduced is incredibly difficult, and I was working on a super small scale. I don't pretend to understand what this game's devs need to deal with when adding 5 new skills to every class, but it's pretty easy to see that, if FaC and WT were anything other than the exact same skill with positional differences, the class would feel awkward, assuming the RNG element was still present. And if it wasn't, levels 56-57 would feel awkward since you only have a fourth hit on one of two combos, and it just wouldn't play well with Blood of the Dragon.

It's really hard to argue that SE did anything other than the right thing with these two skills, especially judging from the way every dragoon who is raiding on the class seems to feel toward them.

[Dante_V]

I love these two skills by the way. It actually adds some dynamic and quick thinking to the class which is something I felt it severely lacked in 2.0 when compared to the other 2.

[lvl27_cubone]

I can agree to an extent that actually obtaining Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw at different levels is a bit odd, and they could have maybe consolidated this into both skills at 56 and a new skill that we just don't have at 58, but once you get to 58, this doesn't matter.

3.0 dragoon was an exceptional design choice to append onto ARR dragoon, and I wouldn't change it at all (unless we just got some free extra button like the above example). Complaining about this is just lack of understanding the thoughtput for the 3.0 skills.

[SilverEphraim]

idk if this is brought up, but honestly, the progression makes sense to me.
Level 54, you get Blood of the Dragon. At this point, it's only used to empower your Jump and Spineshatter Dive during your opener.
Level 56, you get Fang and Claw. Introduce 4th combos the ability to extend your Blood of the Dragon timer, to keep it up basically forever.
Level 58, you get Wheeling Thrust. They're saying "okay, we've introduced this mechanic, and this 4th combo alone makes your DPS a bit higher essentially for free. Let's add a bit of challenge to the concept, to make it a bit harder to deal optimal DPS. Not too hard, you just have to pay attention."
Level 60, you get Geirskogul. This adds you having to manage Blood of the Dragon timers rather than having it be infinite with no need for you to pay attention or learn when you can get away with using a bit more time.

To me, honestly, learning to expect RNG wasn't the problem, my only problem was learning to use a 4th combo. The RNG was something that felt like a natural progression. I mean, in a slightly different way, Black Mage got the same exact thing. Introduction of concept, complication of concept, and adding a mastery level to the concept. Seems reasonable to me.

[Moo_Cow]

Basically what SilverEphraim said(I can't quote because I apparently have a character limit). If you still have a problem then 'git gud'. Seriously; so much complaining over nothing. It's really not that hard to figure out the process behind this design and how to use and apply it. You want something new at 58? We can already barely fit all these skills on active hotbars adding one more filler ability(Doomspike, Feint, Piercing Talon or whatever it's called) won't do anything

[Mayvee]

Basically what SilverEphraim said(I can't quote because I apparently have a character limit). If you still have a problem then 'git gud'. Seriously; so much complaining over nothing. It's really not that hard to figure out the process behind this design and how to use and apply it. You want something new at 58? We can already barely fit all these skills on active hotbars adding one more filler ability(Doomspike, Feint, Piercing Talon or whatever it's called) won't do anything

Doomspike's not filler

[Moo_Cow]

Doomspike's not filler

It's pretty worthless in both cost and effectiveness and really the same could be said for Ring of thorns. Both have very limited situations to actually be useful, like the first link pull on Fractal. No one looks to Dragoon for AOE damage outside of the occasional DFD or GK, which are the only ones that have any effect, and even DFD is on such a long cooldown that it still can't really be counted on for much. You want AOE, look to the ranged classes. It's more often than not a waste of both time and TP for a Dragoon to try filling that role. Nine out of ten times it's more effective to focus things down and actually kill something instead of getting five plus targets down a third of health before running out of TP and being worthless entirely and having to use invigorate on something stupid.

[Tilgung]

Doom Spike and Ring of Thorns are both really effective if you actually use them properly. Properly doesn't mean spamming them mindlessly until you blow through all of your TP.

[Jonnycbad]

Level 54, you get Blood of the Dragon. At this point, it's only used to empower your Jump and Spineshatter Dive during your opener.
Level 56, you get Fang and Claw. Introduce 4th combos the ability to extend your Blood of the Dragon timer, to keep it up basically forever.
Level 58, you get Wheeling Thrust. They're saying "okay, we've introduced this mechanic, and this 4th combo alone makes your DPS a bit higher essentially for free. Let's add a bit of challenge to the concept, to make it a bit harder to deal optimal DPS. Not too hard, you just have to pay attention."
Level 60, you get Geirskogul. This adds you having to manage Blood of the Dragon timers rather than having it be infinite with no need for you to pay attention or learn when you can get away with using a bit more time.

Stop your logic train right there and ask "how does leveling up to 58 and completing this job quest --ADD-- to the job? No other job completes a job quest and gains an ability that not only doesn't ADD anything, but it makes previous mechanics MORE ANNOYING.

BAD.

The other 12 jobs got 5 abilities/spells from 50-60, each unique and each adding potential to the job. DRG effectively learns 4 abilities, because F&C and WT have the same potency but just that at 56, WT is 100% guaranteed proc, but at 58 suddenly they compete for the same proc at the cost of NO ADDITIONAL BENEFIT. Add them at the same level (56), and give us a proper level 58 ability. There's a ton of really cool Lancer abilities from 1.0 they could add for a lv58 ability: Ferocity, Trammel, Moonrise, Speed Surge, Battle Regiment, Twisting Vice, etc...

[Moo_Cow]

Doom Spike and Ring of Thorns are both really effective if you actually use them properly. Properly doesn't mean spamming them mindlessly until you blow through all of your TP.

It really doesn't matter since it's more often than not a overall DPS loss and horribly ineffective. You almost never see Dragoons doing AOE's outside of Geiroskogul and Dragon Fire Dive for exactly this reason. They excel in burning down targets one at a time and are much better suited doing that even on larger groups of enemies. It saves the whole party a lot of time and resources. Regardless this is getting off topic now.

Plain and simply; Dragoons never are or should be looked to for critical AOE damage. That's the strength of casters. Abilities like Ring of Thorns and Doom Spike are basically just filler that don't actually add any utility to the class overall and at best have very circumstantial moments where they'd be useful.