The issue nobody wants to address

[Archaell]

...

"In duty finder it is no ones and everyones party" - I agree with that. That's exactly why the party should know who is not contributing to the team efforts enough, so that they can vote and decide for themselves.

Duty finder is resource which should allow you to do the content that your skill allows - not to be dragged through it. Lack of parser data decreases the chance of players improvement. We can help new players with the instance itself - nobody is against that. But we aren't there to do their work for them. Something okay in Brayflox is no longer okay in Garuda normal. Players have to learn, instead of expecting carrying. Many of us will be even willing to give them pointers when it comes to their job, but we lack the data or are not allowed to mention them. When several players used to get carried trough the game meet in one group, guess what happens? It is not enjoyable experience. And I am talking from my own experience as new player when I had to heal undergeared gladiators in Garuda normal.

DPS checks demands are required by the game, not by the players.

Nobody wants to make duty finder competive and intolerant resource - just do the content you are able to do till you get better.

Nobody wants to remove new players from the game. On the other hand we want to help them get better, but in the part of the game where they start falling behind, not when the group fails Bismark NM again and again.

[Kosmos992k]

I said I was done with this thread, and I am.

I'm not replying to any points or questions, but I wanted to say something to Archaell and the same thoughts apply to others in this topic as well. But since Archaell and I have had quite a back and forth in the topic, I am directing this to Archaell.

I meant to include this in my actual last response to the topic, but forgot it, and so I'll put it into a new post.

I wanted to thank you for discussing the topic with less emotion and Hyperbole than some. I have tried to do likewise, and if I have not always succeeded, I am sorry. I know that we disagree over a small, but significant issue, however I'd be happy to group with you in game, I may not be the best PLD/WHM out there, but I like to think I can hold aggro and still put out more DPS than my autoattacks We're not on the same server or data center so it is unlikely we'll meet, but if for any reason we do, any disagreements we have in this forum, exist only within the threads of this forum.

Despite disagreeing on that very specific issue (which of course has implications through much of the discussion) I think we're both united in wanting the game to be a success and the community to grow and prosper. We both discuss this matter with passion and one thing is for sure, I would rather discuss matters with one player passionate about the game(even if the debate becomes impassioned), than discuss it with 100 people who agree but have little if any passion for the game.

Have fun. I hope neither of our fears come to pass and some other form of compromise rules the day and works for everyone.

-Kosmos

[Jynx]

Even someone shooting hoops in their backyard for fun knows when they're missing the basket, and someone giving them pointers on their shooting form isn't suddenly expecting them to tryout for the NBA.

Said person giving pointers is obviously not also sitting there keeping tally. Parsing someone in a party environment is not giving the individual player tools to up their game it's giving others a tool to preen over less skilled characters and force their ideal of what needs to be done upon them.

Like I said before it's just not as simple as putting this system in and expecting people who don't even know what a parser is to understand what those numbers represent and how to accuractly interpret them without falling into bad habbits.

Bad DPS aren't just bad at rotations they are bad at dodging, being situationally aware of party members and mechanics that surround them. In the content that doesn't require this the bar is set so low a parser has no real use as it's a matter of looking at who is AFK against the wall if your somehow failing dungeon DPS checks. Throwing these powerfull tool at peoples feet is just asking for trouble as far as I'm concerned. Again YOU and people who parse may understand the numbers and know what's going on but it will just become a straight up numbers game to people causing bad habbits in the bad DPS. Sure maybe the numbers will go up but what about dodging and not getting killed? Proper Mechanics? Plenty are bound to forgo dodging an attack because it would lower their DPS, hell we allready see it in the parsing community allready.

Your trying to fix one problem and introduce another.

[OPneedNerfs]

Pssst. Dead DPS actually do no DPS so your argument is invalid.

[Jynx]

Bad dps don't need to be dead. They force healers to forgot their dps and cause other issues other than their death.

[Noxifer]

By the simple fact they aren't showing something they are hiding something :p figuratively and literally. There's no legit reason to really hide your performance when you could not only affect your playing experience but up to 23 others. It's plain inconsiderate and rude, as well as potentially detrimental.

This just makes me remember that it somehow seems to be people's go-to explanation whenever you're against some kind of surveillance. "What do you have to hide?"
Which is kind of sad >.<

If they did split up the DF queue system into one "parser" and one "no parser" group... chances are I'd be more likely to join the "no parser" queue. Not because I want to hide my own numbers, but because I have a lot more patience with a dungeon going slowly than I have with 'omg l2p noob, dps faster' mindsets ^^; And chances are the "parser" queue would have a larger number of that type of people.
But of course this is merely hypothetical. It is possible you'd have an equal amount of 'omg noobs' people in a "no parser" queue, or even more of them. It's just not the result I see as the most likely.
(And of course there's the possibility of normally parsing people joining the "no parser" queue for trolling purposes. =/ )

[OPneedNerfs]

Bad dps don't need to be dead. They force healers to forgot their dps and cause other issues other than their death.

No? Do you actually heal or are you just saying based on backseat driving healers? No decent healer will prioritize a bad dps standing in all kinds of shit instead of keeping the tank and the rest of the party who aren't standing in crap alive.

You really beg us to question if you're one of the said "bads" with your thought process.

[MentheusDreyar]

No? Do you actually heal or are you just saying based on backseat driving healers? No decent healer will prioritize a bad dps standing in all kinds of shit instead of keeping the tank and the rest of the party who aren't standing in crap alive.

You really beg us to question if you're one of the said "bads" with your thought process.

+1 fully agree can't avoid damage you can stay dead for all I care

[Jynx]

You really beg us to question if you're one of the said "bads" with your thought process.

You Decide!

Though your baseless accusations make me question your motivation for parses.

Did I do it right? Make baseless assumptions.

[OPneedNerfs]

You Decide!

Though your baseless accusations make me question your motivation for parses.

Did I do it right? Make baseless assumptions.

Was it really that baseless though? If you actually were a decent healer, you would KNOW for a fact that healing someone who stands in fires on purpose is never a good idea and that re-raising someone who has died more than once in an encounter would kill your resources if you were the sole healer.